Is sugar Ray Leonard the greatest welterweight?

[Clinton]

Originally Posted by hernanday

I was thinking of SRR more as the middleweight when I made the thread. And the reason why I'd love to see SRL vs Pryor was because Pryor was good at beating tall guys, only had 1 lost, and it was when he was past prime. But Leonard was really damn good. Probably a living legend. And short of Pryor I doubt there has been any other welter who could beat him in a series. He had such good endurance that even if you were beating him, he had time to run and figure you out.

To be honest I have not seen enough of SRR to know how good he is or how he really behaved in a fight to determine if he could beat srl.

Personally, I believe Leonard would have handled Pryor convincingly. Pryor's only advantage over Leonard is workrate, and Leonard had great stamina himself.

[Drew101]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

What is Ray Leonard better at that Ray Robinson?

Defense. Leonard in general was more elusive than Robinson. He more or less matches Robinson in terms of hand speed, too. He didn't have SRR's power, but he hit hard enough in his own right to keep Robinson from going all out.

I think this is a pretty tight match-up; and I honestly think Leonard takes one of three from Robinson in a three fight series.

[Drew101]

As an addendum: I would like to note that the I also believe that the WW incarnation of Armstrong could do the same thing that Duran and take at least one fight from Leonard. It's part of the reason why I rate him #2 AT at WW.

[Garrus]

I've been meaning to ask, Drew who's in your avatar?

[Drew101]

Originally Posted by Garrus

I've been meaning to ask, Drew who's in your avatar?

Genero Hernandez.

A more important question to ask is who is in your avatar?

[Garrus]

Brazilian model.

Her name escapes me..

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by SJS19

Admittedly, it's slightly harder to win an argument here, than it is on the General

DId you ever see Ray Robinson on film as a welterweight ? Everything Leonard could do Robinson could do better and Robby hit much harder, fought 200 bouts, four times as many as Leonard who was a shot fighter
after 45 or so bouts...To compare Leonard [who was great ] to a Ray Robinson talent wise or career length, is not fair to Ray Leonard,who in an interview agreed that SRR was the BEST...No way a 12-15 pound lighter Leonard beats the PRIME MW Jake LaMotta 4 times...

[Aaron Contreras]

No -- and frankly, it's not even close. Leonard a great fighter in his own right, doesn't compare to Sugar Ray Robinson.

Even Henry Armstrong did some great things at Welterweight.

Why is this even a discussion?

[Aaron Contreras]

Originally Posted by Drew101

Defense. Leonard in general was more elusive than Robinson. He more or less matches Robinson in terms of hand speed, too. He didn't have SRR's power, but he hit hard enough in his own right to keep Robinson from going all out.

I think this is a pretty tight match-up; and I honestly think Leonard takes one of three from Robinson in a three fight series.

Robinson beat Gavilan (who in some ways, Leonard resembled) twice. Albeit, both fights were close.

Who did Leonard beat which resembled the pugilistic perfection that was Sugar Ray Robinson?

[Drew101]

Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras

Robinson beat Gavilan (who in some ways, Leonard resembled) twice. Albeit, both fights were close.

Who did Leonard beat which resembled the pugilistic perfection that was Sugar Ray Robinson?

Well, he proved he could handle a variety of different styles, from the tall ranger quick-fisted banger (Hearns) to the superlative defensive wizard (Benitez). And SRR could be troubled by smooth, slick counter-puncher types if he failed to take them out early (Servo, Dykes, and Gavilan were examples of this).

Leonard had a nice blend of speed, skill and power, and his defense was better than SRR's (though SRR's D wasn't porous by any means). That means he's got a chance against anyone; even Robinson.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Drew101

Well, he proved he could handle a variety of different styles, from the tall ranger quick-fisted banger (Hearns) to the superlative defensive wizard (Benitez). And SRR could be troubled by smooth, slick counter-puncher types if he failed to take them out early (Servo, Dykes, and Gavilan were examples of this).

Leonard had a nice blend of speed, skill and power, and his defense was better than SRR's (though SRR's D wasn't porous by any means). That means he's got a chance against anyone; even Robinson.

I agree.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Clinton

Personally, I believe Leonard would have handled Pryor convincingly. Pryor's only advantage over Leonard is workrate, and Leonard had great stamina himself.

Yeah, I can't see Pryor winning at all myself either. He needed a "pick-me-up" to get past an Arguello who was fighting above his best weight. Here he would be fighting above his best weight, and if he takes those same rights from Leonard (which I belive he would) I can't see him making it.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras

Robinson beat Gavilan (who in some ways, Leonard resembled) twice. Albeit, both fights were close.

Who did Leonard beat which resembled the pugilistic perfection that was Sugar Ray Robinson?

Hearns is pretty similar to Robinson. Chinnier and more vulnerable on the inside, yes, but also more powerful and with a very clear edge in height and reach. Even more devastating on the outside, I'd say. Could quite possibly be the p4p most dangerous on the outside in the history of the sport at WW.

And the outside and is where Robinson also should try and keep the fight for the majority. In close I think Leonard's superior strength prevails.

[hernanday]

Originally Posted by dogcatcher

Pryor was closer to Lw than WW imo and I would rather have seen him vs Duran than Leonard.

I hate mismatches due to size disparity.

Robinson and Leonard is the best matchup to be made at welter in the history of the sport, at least from 1943 onward.

Pryor never seemed to have any trouble beating taller opponents in his prime, in fact he destroyed them quiet well. If I recall correct, he knocked out 36/37 opponents. Pryor was rated the greatest light weight, his wins over Alexis Argüello who was same height leonard, at 5'6 it'd be norm for him fighting taller guy. I'd actually like to see how Leonard would have handled it. Besides being taller than Leonard didn't seem to be a big advantage. Duran, norris and comacho were all shorter. And the only prime defeat, duran, was basically the same height as pryor.

[hernanday]

Originally Posted by Clinton

Personally, I believe Leonard would have handled Pryor convincingly. Pryor's only advantage over Leonard is workrate, and Leonard had great stamina himself.

Yeah and Pryor could also knock him out with all those wild punches. Not saying he will win, not saying it is definitive, but it is a realisitic possiblity he gets in a lucky shot or gets a win on points like duran did