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Old 10-10-2012, 07:02 AM   #1
SugarShane_24
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Default Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

Would Ray have been as competitive?

I know styles makes fights and all, but even though Ray was ahead on points against Maxim, Moore had dropped and clearly outpointed him as well.

Moore also packs a lot of power and might hit Ray harder than any other opponent ever managed.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:12 AM   #2
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

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Originally Posted by SugarShane_24 View Post
Would Ray have been as competitive?

I know styles makes fights and all, but even though Ray was ahead on points against Maxim, Moore had dropped and clearly outpointed him as well.

Moore also packs a lot of power and might hit Ray harder than any other opponent ever managed.
I dont give him much of a chance against Archie, They talked about it over dinner , but Ray wanted all the money, so it never happened.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

While anything Jack 'Doc' Kearns said should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt, he related the following in his converstion with Sugar Ray while trying to sell him on a bout with then-champion Maxim, whom he managed:

"This is probably the greatest chance you'll ever have to win the light heavyweight championship of the world. No matter what happens, you can't get hurt. Maxim doesn't punch that hard. Now if we have to fight Moore for the title, he'll probably beat us. And, while I think you're a helluva fighter, Ray, I don't think you could whip Archie if they let you carry a meat cleaver. But Maxim now, well that's a different story." Robinson said "You're a foxy fellow, Doc, but I've got to admit maybe you're right at that. And I'd sure like to have another title before I step down."

I agree that Moore probably would have been too much for Sugar Ray.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

Moore wins it
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

Fight Archie Moore, Pul-eeez! No way in hell would SRR, cross gloves with the "old Mongoose". SRR, had plenty of white boys he could fight, he didnt need no stinkin' Achie Moore
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:37 AM   #6
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

Robinson negotiated a fight with Archie Moore, Archie Moore walked out after demanding 50-50 and only being offered 30%

Which 2 rivalries of recent years does this remind you of.......................
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Robinson negotiated a fight with Archie Moore, Archie Moore walked out after demanding 50-50 and only being offered 30%

Which 2 rivalries of recent years does this remind you of.......................
PP, being around those days i can tell you there was no rivalry between Ray robinson and Archie Moore ...Except for that incident where Robinson and moore met for dinner, where Ray wanted the moon, either because he
was greedy, but most likely to cover the fact he didn't really want to hook-up with the MUCH bigger ,stronger and harder punching old Mongoose...
Robinson was no fool, and he settled for Joey Maxim,who could hit no harder than many top MWs...This is the main reason that I have Harry Greb
above Robby...Harry Greb feared NO ONE taking on every great bigger fighter around and whipping them...Why.? Because Greb ,aside from his fearlessness had the great ability because of his unorthodox style to negate the stronger ,slower big boys advantages by outspeeding them and
thrusting volleys of gloves in their face every second of the bout...Greb
it was said "never gave you the ball ". Apt description...Robinson best all around fighter ever was intelligent enough to know his limitations against an Archie Moore or Ezzard Charles,though he could have had this money match in a heartbeat...
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
PP, being around those days i can tell you there was no rivalry between Ray robinson and Archie Moore ...Except for that incident where Robinson and moore met for dinner, where Ray wanted the moon, either because he
was greedy, but most likely to cover the fact he didn't really want to hook-up with the MUCH bigger ,stronger and harder punching old Mongoose...
Robinson was no fool, and he settled for Joey Maxim,who could hit no harder than many top MWs...This is the main reason that I have Harry Greb
above Robby...Harry Greb feared NO ONE taking on every great bigger fighter around and whipping them...Why.? Because Greb ,aside from his fearlessness had the great ability because of his unorthodox style to negate the stronger ,slower big boys advantages by outspeeding them and
thrusting volleys of gloves in their face every second of the bout...Greb
it was said "never gave you the ball ". Apt description...Robinson best all around fighter ever was intelligent enough to know his limitations against an Archie Moore or Ezzard Charles,though he could have had this money match in a heartbeat...
Ray wanted the moon for every fight Burt, he didn't love the sport but he did love the paydays and dictating terms. I'm not saying Robinson beats Moore, but he did offer to fight him

BTW the offer to fight Moore was after Moore beat Maxim I believe. Maybe Robinson thought he could capture that LHW crown after all?
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Ray wanted the moon for every fight Burt, he didn't love the sport but he did love the paydays and dictating terms. I'm not saying Robinson beats Moore, but he did offer to fight him

BTW the offer to fight Moore was after Moore beat Maxim I believe. Maybe Robinson thought he could capture that LHW crown after all?
PP, after Robinson was stopped by Joey Maxim,in 1952, Robby retired from the ring, coming back to fighting in 1955 when he got his behind whipped by MW Tiger Jones...Archie was fighting HWs by then...So Robinson and Moore had dinner together before the Maxim bout...After the Maxim bout
three years later ,Robinson and Moore was not a hot item anymore...
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
PP, after Robinson was stopped by Joey Maxim,in 1952, Robby retired from the ring, coming back to fighting in 1955 when he got his behind whipped by MW Tiger Jones...Archie was fighting HWs by then...So Robinson and Moore had dinner together before the Maxim bout...After the Maxim bout
three years later ,Robinson and Moore was not a hot item anymore...
Not sure on the exact dates, Archie meerly asked his wife to get his coat being disappointed in the 'meer 30%' that was offered. I believe Archie was champ at the time and I would guess it was probably after Robo regained the MW crown

I think the time it would sell the best (even if SRR was past prime) was when both were champs. I think if SRR considered it the biggest payday he'd take the fight, but maybe he needed 70% or whatever cut to make that be

It's an interesting fight, Moore the much stronger man, Robinson the quicker, athletic, more skilled man, I would be intrigued to watch how it plays out
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

I don't think anyone is going to find SR Robinson to be an easy fight, especially in a big magnitude bout like this. Even winning rounds against the guy is not going to be 1 sided or easy.

This was a great match we never got to see though. what a shame. From like the 5th round on, it would've been fantastic watching Archie feint him and see the reaction. Or the counters either guy could land. Or who makes the mistakes. Not a bout to be making mistakes in & Robinson had that great chin that would keep him in there longer than he probably should. Quantum leap in ko abilities comparing former welter Basilio and Tiger Jones and those middles to a guy like Moore, no matter how you cut it.

Archie says he wanted the guy at middle as well, so this really could have been a terrific 2 or 3 fight series with these guys.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Not sure on the exact dates, Archie meerly asked his wife to get his coat being disappointed in the 'meer 30%' that was offered. I believe Archie was champ at the time and I would guess it was probably after Robo regained the MW crown

I think the time it would sell the best (even if SRR was past prime) was when both were champs. I think if SRR considered it the biggest payday he'd take the fight, but maybe he needed 70% or whatever cut to make that be

It's an interesting fight, Moore the much stronger man, Robinson the quicker, athletic, more skilled man, I would be intrigued to watch how it plays out
PP, having seen Ray Robinson at WW ringside,no one has a greater respect for Ray, but he really wanted no part of the great LH Archie, cause if he truly did want that bout Ray could have had it...A neighbor of mine Artie Levine who was an average super welterweight had Robinson on the floor for 17 seconds, and Levine a good puncher was not in the same league with the tremendous wily puncher LH Archie Moore...
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Had Robinson challenged Moore instead of Maxim

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Originally Posted by zadfrak View Post
I don't think anyone is going to find SR Robinson to be an easy fight, especially in a big magnitude bout like this. Even winning rounds against the guy is not going to be 1 sided or easy.

This was a great match we never got to see though. what a shame. From like the 5th round on, it would've been fantastic watching Archie feint him and see the reaction. Or the counters either guy could land. Or who makes the mistakes. Not a bout to be making mistakes in & Robinson had that great chin that would keep him in there longer than he probably should. Quantum leap in ko abilities comparing former welter Basilio and Tiger Jones and those middles to a guy like Moore, no matter how you cut it.

Archie says he wanted the guy at middle as well, so this really could have been a terrific 2 or 3 fight series with these guys.

I agree, but I would add that Moore, the bigger man and the harder puncher, would probably win a battle of counterpunchers OR a fight in the trenches. Ray wouldn't easily hurt him, and would be absorbing the hardest right hands he ever had been forced to endure in the process.

I'd comfortably pick more. As great as SRR is, there is such a thing as a step too far. Archie would have every advantage that mattered, his timing dealing enough with Ray's speed to remove it as a serious, important edge.
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