high intensity training...how good is it for boxing or for general

[highguard]

there was a traditional bodybuilding method, which is still fellowed by people in gyms and probably most in bodybuilding

and arnold was a huge guy pushing the method

1 or 2 body parts a day
you do a ton of sets
like example
chest
3-4 sets
flat bench
3-4 sets
incline
and sometimes the same for flys or incline
1-set light
2-heavier
3-heaviest
4-back lighter

now was pushed a lot by joe weider, who was a big force in arnold
winning so much.

now there was a totally different method
called high intensity pushed athur jones
and his most famous student mike menzer

here is a video that explains it
it takes alot less time, but you train to failure

i like that it takes much less time but
i dont like that they used machines so much, and the very little warming up could be dangerious for a non pro bodybuilder

and i dont how how well you could do a sport while training like that
where you had to spend a lot of time recovering

but it is very interesting
and i am wondering if anyone trained like that and in general
what do you guys think



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjQ2qUEBbss&feature=related[/ame]

[dealt_with]

This isn't a bodybuilding forum. In any sport you need periods of higher volume-low intensity and periods of low volume-high intensity. It isn't a matter of one's better than the other.

[Jdsm]

The former is unneccessarily excessive and the latter is asking for an injury.

[scrap]

High Intensity work is a must, But with weights my problem, as regards any active Sport, is you are working mostly with your Bio mechanical Break on. Too me thats the Problem.

[viru§™]

The best thing an athlete can gain from weight training is power. The training you're posting is for building muscle and advocates training to failure.

i dont like that they used machines so much, and the very little warming up could be dangerious for a non pro bodybuilder

Um, not warming up can be dangerous to anyone...

[greynotsoold]

I'll bet that Arnold can only fight in his movies.

[Jdsm]

Originally Posted by viru§™

The best thing an athlete can gain from weight training is power. The training you're posting is for building muscle and advocates training to failure.





Um, not warming up can be dangerous to anyone...

One of the things people need to understand about following routines that are 'designed' for the IFBB pros and such, is that you aren't injecting large amounts of steroids daily, you aren't injecting insulin several times a day and you aren't doing all of the other things that come with the territory. Granted Arnold only used small dosages compared to what bodybuilding has evolved into, but there is a huge difference between what the natural trainee should be doing.

I'm not entirely sure why this has been posted anyway to be honest, it doesn't relate to boxing.

[highguard]

Originally Posted by Jdsm

One of the things people need to understand about following routines that are 'designed' for the IFBB pros and such, is that you aren't injecting large amounts of steroids daily, you aren't injecting insulin several times a day and you aren't doing all of the other things that come with the territory. Granted Arnold only used small dosages compared to what bodybuilding has evolved into, but there is a huge difference between what the natural trainee should be doing.

I'm not entirely sure why this has been posted anyway to be honest, it doesn't relate to boxing.

it doesnt directly relate to boxing BUT since most boxers these days do lift weights,
it is an interesting topic for discussion, because it is a totally different method then the norm.


the reason i posted this is because alot of people always talk about how lifting weights takes a lot of time away from their sport,
while this method takes very little time,
but as people have mentioned it, it has many drawbacks
thusly one the reasons why the "normal" method stayed around
and this one really hasnt

[highguard]

Originally Posted by dealt_with

This isn't a bodybuilding forum. In any sport you need periods of higher volume-low intensity and periods of low volume-high intensity. It isn't a matter of one's better than the other.

well this is not a running form,
but lots of people make treads about running exercises,

and just like some need help improving cardio
others need help putting on muscle-getting stronger

[viru§™]

Originally Posted by highguard

and just like some need help improving cardio
others need help putting on muscle-getting stronger

For any athlete gaining extra muscle should be a bi-product of their training not the goal. That's what splits athletes up from bodybuilders.

You've posted a routine that is purely designed for muscle building, not in any way for athletes.

[highguard]

so your saying no athlete ever needs a routine for muscle building????

sometimes athlete or not, a person needs to put muscle for various reasons,

and a "bi-product"
boxing is not excatly a sport that makes you put on muscle

also in the title i said or for general?
and i did not remade this routine for boxing, wrestling or even bodybuilding
just posted it as a question mark,

i am actually not a fan at all of it to be honest
but 2 guys i used to grapple with
do it for powet purposes and because it doesnt take up much time.

i have had many arguments against them because i dont like this way of training
because it can lead to injuries and relies to much on machines, which are not as good as free weights for bodybuidling or sports training

[viru§™]

Originally Posted by highguard

so your saying no athlete ever needs a routine for muscle building????

My point was an athlete should'nt use a program like this where the prime goal is building muscle. If an Olympic lifter has to gain some weight to go up a weight class, should they stop their lifting training and just do bodybuilding to build muscle?

sometimes athlete or not, a person needs to put muscle for various reasons,

True...

and a "bi-product"
boxing is not excatly a sport that makes you put on muscle

I never said it does.

also in the title i said or for general?

There are many forms of this type of training and they're effective at building muscle.

and i did not remade this routine for boxing, wrestling or even bodybuilding
just posted it as a question mark,

I didn't say you did...

i am actually not a fan at all of it to be honest
but 2 guys i used to grapple with
do it for powet purposes and because it doesnt take up much time.

Workouts like this including going to failure are in no way decent at building neither strength or power.

i have had many arguments against them because i dont like this way of training
because it can lead to injuries and relies to much on machines, which are not as good as free weights for bodybuidling or sports training

This I agree with.

[bck620]

What the bloody hell??

[dealt_with]

Originally Posted by highguard

so your saying no athlete ever needs a routine for muscle building????

sometimes athlete or not, a person needs to put muscle for various reasons,

and a "bi-product"
boxing is not excatly a sport that makes you put on muscle

also in the title i said or for general?
and i did not remade this routine for boxing, wrestling or even bodybuilding
just posted it as a question mark,

i am actually not a fan at all of it to be honest
but 2 guys i used to grapple with
do it for powet purposes and because it doesnt take up much time.

i have had many arguments against them because i dont like this way of training
because it can lead to injuries and relies to much on machines, which are not as good as free weights for bodybuidling or sports training

If an athlete needs to put on muscle then it has to be functional muscle specific to their sports demands. That's especially important in a sport like boxing where you want a high strength to weight ratio.
If somebody asked how to improve their 12km run time trial and if they should do 100km a week or 20km in short intervals I'd also say that this isn't a running forum.
You're talking about bodybuilding training which is irrelevant here.
The only thing you can take from it is that sometimes it is good to train a high volume at low intensity (usually your pre season) and also high intensity low volume (closer to competition). Some people will get more from one or the other if they're lacking a certain aspect of fitness.

[highguard]

Originally Posted by dealt_with

If an athlete needs to put on muscle then it has to be functional muscle specific to their sports demands. That's especially impo ratio.rtant in a sport like boxing where you want a high strength to weight
If somebody asked how to improve their 12km run time trial and if they should do 100km a week or 20km in short intervals I'd also say that this isn't a running forum.
You're talking about bodybuilding training which is irrelevant here.
The only thing you can take from it is that sometimes it is good to train a high volume at low intensity (usually your pre season) and also high intensity low volume (closer to competition). Some people will get more from one or the other if they're lacking a certain aspect of fitness.

ahh i agree with some of what you said,
but

'That's especially impo ratio.rtant in a sport like boxing where you want a high strength to weight'

while the reasoning is clear why you said this
the fact from what i have seen is that many boxers are actually not that
strong for their size if you compare them to other combat sportsman like wrestlers etc"

while they are very fast and explosive often, when it comes to pure
strength many boxers are lacking



"If an athlete needs to put on muscle then it has to be functional muscle specific to their sports demands"

again true but some guys have trouble putting on muscle
functional or not, so this is where bodybuilding comes in
because they are experts at putting on muscle


and like it or not most strength and conditioning coaches use quite a bit of
bodybuilding stuff in their training,

they'll just the term weight training exercises

why? because most knowlege about strength training
came from powerlifters,weightlifters and bodybuilders
all of whom influced each other