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Old 10-09-2012, 09:45 AM   #1
babaluma
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Default Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

As nobody replied to my post about the "inbetween" devisons I thought I would repost but narrow it down. For example would Wilfredo Gomez, who pretty much legitimised the fledgling Light Featherweight class with his excellent run as champ, still have had an ATG career if there were no Light Featherweight class and he had to fight at either Bantamweight or Featherweight during his peak years? Which would he have fought at? BW up to FW, or straight into the FW division you think?

Featherweight options:

If in 1977 (the year he first won the LT FW title) he had challenged Danny Lopez for the WBC Featherweight title what would have happened?

I suspect he could have beaten WBA champions of the time Cecilio Lastra or Rafael Ortega but what about Eusebio Pedroza who took over for a long run as WBA FW champ in 1978? Could he have beaten Pedroza and then set up a clash with Sanchez but as a FW unification match?

Bantamweight options:

If in 1977 he had been able to make Bantamweight then he would have clashed with Carlos Zarate for the WBC title, how would this fight have been different at BW? He could also have fought Jorge LujŠn first for the WBA title and then clashed with Zarate as a BW unification match or if a little earlier maybe Zamora?


All the Gomez/ BW - FW expects please let me know what you think of these options! Also any other examples of great fighters who made their careers at the in-between weight classes whose ATG standing may have been different if forced to fight in one of the 8 original classes.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:54 AM   #2
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

Yeah, he could've made bantam.

But if he had to fight at feather? No, probably not an ATG.

Jiro Watanabe, Khaosai Galaxy and Ricardo Lopez all suffer from not fighting in one of the matinee divisions. Lopez's light fly tenure was not in the stacked era that made that division a necessity in the 70s and 80s. The first two would not have been the top bantam if they'd move up in their own time IMO.

Look at Canto. Didn't have the luxury of light fly for most of his career, let alone straw. Still talented enough to be one of the greatest flyweights of all time. Being te greatest straw weight means jack shit.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:31 AM   #3
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

Possibly at Bantam, Featherweight, not so sure.I don't see him beating Pedroza, and Sanchez would still probably beat him in a tougher fight.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:49 AM   #4
babaluma
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

So how would Gomez have done if he had challenged Lopez at FW? I imagine that would have been a classic! I have not watched Sanchez/Gomez fight for years but I remember Gomez rather arrogantly just walking straight in with his chin hanging in the air. I think he had become addicted to his power and left himself wide open to Sanchez, but if this fight had taken place earlier, say Gomez beat Lopez and held title until 1980 when Sanchez challenges, maybe it would have been different? He boxes and is more cautious, also it is less of a super fight at this stage so less pressure to be macho!

Also if Gomez fights Zarate earlier at BW maybe he loses? Fighting someone like Zarate in your first title challenge is far more daunting than fighting Dong-Kyun Yum at LtFW. Maybe he woudl have folded like Pedroza vs Zamora in his first challenge before moving up and establishing himself at FW?
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

He'd out general Lopez with ease but he was not unhittable.

Lopez could starch him, but if Gomez remains sharp and trades less than Chacon did he should be too sharp, accurate and elusive for Little Red.

A toss up IMO.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:23 AM   #6
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
He'd out general Lopez with ease but he was not unhittable.

Lopez could starch him, but if Gomez remains sharp and trades less than Chacon did he should be too sharp, accurate and elusive for Little Red.

A toss up IMO.

True, at his best he would be too mobile and if Chacon found a way, albeit against a less experienced Little Red, then Gomez should be OK. However was Gomez a bit BW or a small FW if you get my drift? He went all the way up to JnrLW so he must have had a big frame but he looks quite small compared to other FWs and seemed pretty vulnerable when his punch did not carry up in weight.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

No, he was a small featherweight even then, and in no way did he beat Lockridge at 130.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Yeah, he could've made bantam.

But if he had to fight at feather? No, probably not an ATG.

Jiro Watanabe suffers from not fighting in one of the matinee divisions. Lopez's light fly tenure was in a stacked era that made that division a necessity in the 70s and 80s. Khaosai Galaxy would have been the top bantam in anytime IMO.

Look at Canto. Didn't have the luxury of light fly for most of his career, let alone straw. Still talented enough to be one of the greatest flyweights of all time. Being te greatest straw weight means as much as being the greatest flyweight IMO.
Flea I agree with every word.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

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Flea I agree with every word.


EDIT; You're a bastard.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

If he came in properly conditioned at featherweight, I see him beating Pedroza, Lockridge, Laporte and lesser likes.

Don't think he'd ever beat Sal or Nelson though.

People consider Pedroza a great though, so I'm sure he could have eeked out a Pedroza-esque legacy.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

Yeah he could have still had a great career at either weight.

At Feather he would likely be a bit too small and average-jawed for the opposition he'd have to face though, as far as being able to establish the kind of rep he did at 122.Might keep him from abandoning his overall skills as much as he did, mind you(not that he was ever a Rosario in that respect anyway though)

More likely to do that if he keeps his dedication and weight down at Bantam, though he would have faced a tougher crop of fighters than he did at 122.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:49 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

Good points Lora.

Let's say a peak conditioned Gomez comes onto the featherweight scene in the Naz/Barrera/Morales/Pac/JMM era.

How do you think he does against that crop?

Personally I see him ruling the division, so long as he doesn't come into any fights underdone...
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

What I find frustrating with the split titles and multiple weight classes, speaking as a fan, is that we will in a way never really know how good fighters like Gomez were. While I acknowledge we can watch film and judge skills and style as far as record goes with 8 weight classes his career could very well gone like this:

Wins WBA Featherweight title from Rafael Ortega, retains against Cecilio Lastra and Eusebio Pedroza then loses unification with Salvador Sanchez who lives and then beats Gomez in a rematch. He then wins FW title vs Juan Laporte, after Sal moves up but loses in first defence to Nelson and then has to go all the way up to Lightweight in 1984/85 and most likely loses to Edwin Rosario or Livingstone Bramble for the title or even in this fantasy, Sanchez who is now unified LW champ in a third fight.

In my alternate history this would leave him as a 2 weight champ with a title fight record of 4 wins vs 4 loses with 1 win and 3 loses to the ATG opponent he faced i(f you think Nelson, Pedroza and Rosario are ATG otherwise it means he loses to Sanchez, his one ATG fight which is similar to someone like Hamed)

This sort of career while very good puts him on a level with fighters like Lockridge, Hatton, Judah, Chacon IMO rather than the next level up he is thought of as a 3 weight champ with 23 world title fights to his name due to having JnrLW and JnrFW belts available to fight for.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

Based upon facts,,,,,,,,

Wilfredo Gomez in November 1974 at age 18 turned professional.
At 5' 5" and 118 lbs., he had a very small window to go after the 118 lb.
Bantamweight Championship - which would have been late-1976 and early-1977.

By mid-1977, the 20 1/2 year-old was fighting at 122 lbs. (Super-Bantawmweight).

No way could he get down to 118 lbs., as he barely made 122 lbs.

Hence, he would be fighting at Featherweight in later-1977.

That means his early 'Top' opponents would be;
* Danny Lopez
* David Kotey
* Ruben Olivares
* Sean O'Grady
* Jose Torres
* Juan Domingo Malvarez
* Rafalel Ortega
* Francisco Coronado
* Cecilio Lastra
* Eusubio Pedroza
* Royal Kobayashi
* Ernesto Herrera

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 10-10-2012 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:54 PM   #15
lora
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Default Re: Wilfredo Gomez ATG if no Light Featherweight division?

he barely made weight because he was a party animal.Guy was a Bantam size fighter through and through.
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