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Old 10-16-2012, 09:00 AM   #61
irishny
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Default Re: Price's career going nowhere

After he fights Skelton,he will have had a grand total of 15 fights.

Who had Vitali fought after 15 fights?

I expect 2013 to be a big year for Price.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:15 AM   #62
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Default Re: Price's career going nowhere

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Fighters improve and decline at the same time; their peak is where the tehcnical, tactical and strategic aspects of their boxing meets the nearest high point of their phyiscal prime. But this is different for every type. For Tyson it was far, far more important to be at or near his physical peak to be at his very best; this is not the case for Price who has a style that lends itself, usually, to longevity.

This is because a cornerstone of this style is to control the tempo (sparing his stamina) and is based more upon technical excellence than speed to begin with (though a dramatic drop off will still really hurt, obviously).

But all of this is in his future - we'll see. My point is that those deriding him for facing his fifth opponent in one calander year because that opponent is a weak opponent don't know what they are talking about. It is natural, normal, and of surprise to absolutely nobody in the indsutry.

Next year he will face Fury or someone similar - that's got management. If he continues to fight at this level next year, like I said, we've got a problem.

But that almost certainly won't happen.

This is pretty much what I was saying. But Price won't have the experience to have the "tehcnical, tactical and strategic" aspects.
It's his 4th opponent, not his fifth. This is a completely normal progression in terms of who he is fighting for someone with this number of fights.
There isn't a better available British opponent to defend the title against.
My point is that, because the 14 fights have been over a long period of time and he is nearly 30, the schedule needed to be adjusted and speeded up.

He's going to be going from skelton and Harrison to a top 10 ranked fighter, that is not a good gradual progression, he's going to have to take a huge leap in quality because he's spent too long in getting this far. Not in terms of the number of fights, but the time frame of 3 3/4 years to get to this point.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:22 AM   #63
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Default Re: Price's career going nowhere

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price vs helenius..how you think it goes??

i think helenius is awfull..but had a yarn with my dad today who thinks helenius would knock price out..i of course laughed in his face..
Well let's face it, Helenius is a step ahead of Price development-wise. But he's also coming off an injury.

If all goes well for Price he could fight Helenius by the end of 2013. I'd favor Helenius, he's not a great boxer but we've seen him fight top 20 opponents and take them out. Haven't seen enough from Prince yet.

In general Price shouldn't be too concerned with getting big fights too quickly. He can safely stick with the Sam Peters and Audley Harrisons just to test himself slowly and grow his confidence.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:24 AM   #64
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This is pretty much what I was saying. But Price won't have the experience to have the "tehcnical, tactical and strategic" aspects.
Fighters at his stage of their careers are learning with almost every fight. Literally. Things that work, things that don't. Even more they are learning
exponentially in training (see the imprpovements in Price's jab).

He won't have the experience of...a more experienced fighter, but he will have more experience than he has now. That is, he is improving and learning with each fight.

He is more likely to lose to a fighter he is capable of beating if he is not rushed, but there will be a leap, as you say. This is the bottom line and it speaks loudest.

His eventual fate in what is a very weak division with two fading kings is very much open for debate, certainly, but I don't think the way he is being handled really is.

Certainly not to the point where he can be dismissed as "another Povetkin".

His situation isn't ideal, as you say, but it is what it is. Skelton, Dimitrenko, Chisora, Fury, Haye, Pulev, Povetkin, Wlad would represent more than reasonable next than three.four years for him with those names interchangeable with other guys at and around.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:25 AM   #65
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There is some truth to this, but even ****ing Audley Harrison got five chances or something.

Price's age is not ideal, but it is what it is. There's no changing it. He has to be managed in the correct way, and he is being.
If we look at other boxers about Price's age and have been pro for a similar time period;

Pulev, 17-0, Ustinov, Dimitrenko, Walker, Skelton in his 5th fight.

Helenius 17-0, Peter, Liakhovich, Chisora

Mitchell 25-0 Ibragimov, Witherspoon


Price should have had fights like this by now.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:31 AM   #66
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Default Re: Price's career going nowhere

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Fighters at his stage of their careers are learning with almost every fight. Literally. Things that work, things that don't. Even more they are learning
exponentially in training (see the imprpovements in Price's jab).

He won't have the experience of...a more experienced fighter, but he will have more experience than he has now. That is, he is improving and learning with each fight.

He is more likely to lose to a fighter he is capable of beating if he is not rushed, but there will be a leap, as you say. This is the bottom line and it speaks loudest.

His eventual fate in what is a very weak division with two fading kings is very much open for debate, certainly, but I don't think the way he is being handled really is.

Certainly not to the point where he can be dismissed as "another Povetkin".

His situation isn't ideal, as you say, but it is what it is. Skelton, Dimitrenko, Chisora, Fury, Haye, Pulev, Povetkin, Wlad would represent more than reasonable next than three.four years for him with those names interchangeable with other guys at and around.

I wouldn't call him "another Povetkin" Price's career progression is below that.

Within the first 3 years of Povetkin's career he had faced Byrd and Chambers.


Price isn't learning with each fight. He has boxed 37 rounds in his career.
I don't know with whom he has been sparring, but I don't expect it would be anyone of note in preparation for fights at this level.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:39 AM   #67
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I wouldn't call him "another Povetkin" Price's career progression is below that.

Within the first 3 years of Povetkin's career he had faced Byrd and Chambers.


Price isn't learning with each fight. He has boxed 37 rounds in his career.
I don't know with whom he has been sparring, but I don't expect it would be anyone of note in preparation for fights at this level.

There is a difference between being a "world champion" and hand picking shit opponents and a 14-0 prospect and doing the same. That is my point.

Price has done a huge amount of name sparring, including Haye, Chisora, Sosnowski (if you want to count him!) and Solis but names Pulev as being his toughest spars.

The fighter himself says he is learning with each fight and I agree that he is.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:41 AM   #68
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Default Re: Price's career going nowhere

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Originally Posted by Ncc84 View Post
If we look at other boxers about Price's age and have been pro for a similar time period;

Pulev, 17-0, Ustinov, Dimitrenko, Walker, Skelton in his 5th fight.

Helenius 17-0, Peter, Liakhovich, Chisora

Mitchell 25-0 Ibragimov, Witherspoon


Price should have had fights like this by now.
But he hasn't; he's had 14 fights.

You can't change what is in the past. It is undeniable that Price has been moved along more slowly than the men you've listed above. I can only say it for the fifth time - if he's still fighting opponents of this quality next year we have problems. Skelton is a fine opponent for such a fast turnaround in a busy year.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:07 AM   #69
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But he hasn't; he's had 14 fights.

You can't change what is in the past. It is undeniable that Price has been moved along more slowly than the men you've listed above. I can only say it for the fifth time - if he's still fighting opponents of this quality next year we have problems. Skelton is a fine opponent for such a fast turnaround in a busy year.
Next year he will be fighting opponents of a higher quality, but fury excluded, will still be behind where he should be.
I'm saying his progression is too slow, you are saying it isn't. So does that mean you think the careers of the other boxers I named are being rushed?

"I can only say it for the fifth time - if he's still fighting opponents of this quality next year we have problems." If we were having this debate a year a go, you would have made this same point, and the truth is, that is where we are.

You are ignoring the fact that he is nearly 4 years into his career, and just focusing on the fact that it is his 14th fight.
As I have said, it is a passable fight for his 14th fight. But that changes because it has taken so long to get to his 14th fight. So therefore his career plan should have been adjusted to speed it up.

Skelton is not his next opponent because he is at the right level to allow for Price to improve in the best possible way. It is because he is British and Maloney wants him to win the lonsdale belt outright. But my point is that it is too late to waste time with that, and instead he should move on to opponents that would help his progression from domestic to top 10 level. Like the opponents the boxers I mentioned previously have faced.


Do you really think fighting Skelton is a good choice and will help him prepare for a fighter like Fury?
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:16 AM   #70
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Next year he will be fighting opponents of a higher quality, but fury excluded, will still be behind where he should be.
I understand what you are saying as regards other pro's that turn professional at a given stage of their careers. As for what is "right for them" that's always going to be an unkown. You can have an opinion, and yours is valid but it isn't one that really matters. The eye says that Price is coming along beatuifully and there is no derth of people, industry and fan, ready to pick him over the type of fighters we are talking about.

Quote:
I'm saying his progression is too slow, you are saying it isn't. So does that mean you think the careers of the other boxers I named are being rushed?
I think that every fighter is different and I think that the eye and the results speak the loudest.

Quote:
You are ignoring the fact that he is nearly 4 years into his career, and just focusing on the fact that it is his 14th fight.
Yes, I am ignoring it. Price's relative lack of activity is reality; i'm more interested in what come snext.

Quote:
Do you really think fighting Skelton is a good choice and will help him prepare for a fighter like Fury?
I don't think it is notably worse than the fighters Fury has chosen to prepare himself for Price, 35-7 Vinny Maddalone (2-2 going in) or 14-2 Martin Rogan (2-2 going in and an even(ish) match for Skelton). In other words these are two REGIONAL fighters who are about to have a REGIONAL dust up which will elevate one of them.

But if fury beat Dimitrenko or Chisora (Again) next time out I would still pick Price to beat him. In other words, however their respective careers have been handled, Price has been broght along in such a way as to make him a favourite versus Fury (and he will be).
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:28 AM   #71
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Default Re: Price's career going nowhere

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He is a good fighter, no doubt.

But now he will be facing 45 year old, I repeat 45 year old (!) Matt Skelton in another meaningless fight.

Price has showcased his abilities more than enough against useless Englobums and needs to step it up !

He is becoming another Povetkin.

There are tons of interesting opponents out there, he could fight Chisora, Fury, Adamek, etc. all of these fight could be made if Price and perhaps more importantly his team agreed.

He wants the British title outright, and has stated as much. He can't fight much better if thats what he wants. Haye won't fight for a domestic title, Fury vacated said title, and Chisora's banned. Who would you like him to face?
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:38 AM   #72
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Default Re: Price's career going nowhere

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I think that every fighter is different and I think that the eye and the results speak the loudest.


Yes, I am ignoring it. Price's relative lack of activity is reality; i'm more interested in what come snext.

Yes, and what comes next should be a higher level, not skelton. His fights demonstrate his power and he can finish an opponent, but as they are offering him no challenge coming forward he is learning little or nothing.

His improvements and development are coming from his training not his fights. If his next opponent was a worthy opponent he would learn from that, and it would help him and his trainers know what to develop in training which would no doubt help to develop.

I disagree with the thread starters point that his career is going nowhere, but this fight is a waste of time. He will gain nothing from stopping Skelton in a couple of rounds, as he learnt nothing from Harrison.

Humour me for a moment and don't ignore it. Do you think Skelton is the sort of opponent a boxer 4 years into his career with world title aspirations should be facing?
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:43 AM   #73
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Default Re: Price's career going nowhere

Nobody goes, "i hope i'm fighting a 45 year old former british champion three years from now" at the start of their careers, no.

Let me ask you a question - which of these schedules is preferable for a novice:

Oct 10th: Audley Harrison
Dec 10th: Matt Skelton
Apr 14th: Tyson Fury.

OR

Oct 10th: Audley Harrison
Apr 14th: Tyson Fury.

Easy, isn't it?
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:44 AM   #74
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Yes, and what comes next should be a higher level, not skelton. His fights demonstrate his power and he can finish an opponent, but as they are offering him no challenge coming forward he is learning little or nothing.

His improvements and development are coming from his training not his fights. If his next opponent was a worthy opponent he would learn from that, and it would help him and his trainers know what to develop in training which would no doubt help to develop.

I disagree with the thread starters point that his career is going nowhere, but this fight is a waste of time. He will gain nothing from stopping Skelton in a couple of rounds, as he learnt nothing from Harrison.

Humour me for a moment and don't ignore it. Do you think Skelton is the sort of opponent a boxer 4 years into his career with world title aspirations should be facing?

Read above and propose an alternative. Fighter needs to be British as Price wants a Lonsdale belt to keep.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:54 AM   #75
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Read above and propose an alternative. Fighter needs to be British as Price wants a Lonsdale belt to keep.
Yes, absolutely. In another thread I even went through many British fighters to explain why Skelton is the only possible choice for this.

I just think if there isn't a worthy British opponent available to defend against, at his age and stage in his career he should move on.
If Chisora was a possible opponent then I would be all for winning the belt outright, but he isn't.
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