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Old 09-02-2013, 02:55 AM   #1
choklab
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Default Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

After the Frazier fight Ali went on a whirlwind tour fighting top contenders, what if he picked Foreman? George was not fighting anyone decent and Ali was the one pushing for a rematch with Frazier. In light of their 1974 fight I would still pick Ali as a Winner in 1972. However, how do you see things panning out after that? I don't think Foreman would ever get to demonstrate what he could do to Frazier and with a loss against Ali where does he go? Ali never rematched George after 1974 so why would he defend against Foreman after he beats Frazier for the title? What becomes of Foremans resume?
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:31 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

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Originally Posted by choklab View Post
After the Frazier fight Ali went on a whirlwind tour fighting top contenders, what if he picked Foreman? George was not fighting anyone decent and Ali was the one pushing for a rematch with Frazier. In light of their 1974 fight I would still pick Ali as a Winner in 1972. However, how do you see things panning out after that? I don't think Foreman would ever get to demonstrate what he could do to Frazier and with a loss against Ali where does he go? Ali never rematched George after 1974 so why would he defend against Foreman after he beats Frazier for the title? What becomes of Foremans resume?
Why do you think Ali would beat Frazier for the title ?
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

Frazier hit an all time peak when he beat Ali in 71. Question in my mind would be could he repeat the performance vs an Ali more active and better ready to fight him. Remember Ali was just 6 months from a 4 year exile when they fought the first time. Ali would beat Foreman in 72 then loses/beats Norton. Ali gets his shot and beats Frazier in 74. George probably continues winning until he fights Holmes or Young. It's certainly conceivable that he does not get a title shot until Ali retires.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

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Frazier hit an all time peak when he beat Ali in 71. Question in my mind would be could he repeat the performance vs an Ali more active and better ready to fight him. Remember Ali was just 6 months from a 4 year exile when they fought the first time. Ali would beat Foreman in 72 then loses/beats Norton. Ali gets his shot and beats Frazier in 74. George probably continues winning until he fights Holmes or Young. It's certainly conceivable that he does not get a title shot until Ali retires.

Had Ali and Joe had a rematch for the title in '72,it would have been similar to their second fight in real time but over fifteen instead of twelve. Joe was never quite the same after FOTC but Ali got sharper.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

The Foreman bubble would have burst two years earlier than it actually did.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

It would have been like Deontay Wilder fighting Wardimir right now.
Not a single meaningful win on Gregor his resume.

He would have been remembered as the Don Steele of the past
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

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Why do you think Ali would beat Frazier for the title ?
It's obvious.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:40 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Frazier hit an all time peak when he beat Ali in 71. Question in my mind would be could he repeat the performance vs an Ali more active and better ready to fight him. Remember Ali was just 6 months from a 4 year exile when they fought the first time. Ali would beat Foreman in 72 then loses/beats Norton. Ali gets his shot and beats Frazier in 74. George probably continues winning until he fights Holmes or Young. It's certainly conceivable that he does not get a title shot until Ali retires.
Frazier was actually a bit past his peak against Ali in '71.

He showed better movement in 1969-70.

I don't know if the April, 1970 fractured ankle or his other health issues were the reason, but he definitely showed better movement prior to the first fight with Ali.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

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It's obvious.

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Old 09-02-2013, 01:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

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Frazier was actually a bit past his peak against Ali in '71.

He showed better movement in 1969-70.

I don't know if the April, 1970 fractured ankle or his other health issues were the reason, but he definitely showed better movement prior to the first fight with Ali.
Total rubbish, 27 years old Frazier never before, or after fought a fight as good as he did against Ali in FOTC.
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Old 09-02-2013, 02:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

I agree ....never saw Frazier better nor was he ever as motivated than in that first fight with Ali.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Frazier hit an all time peak when he beat Ali in 71. Question in my mind would be could he repeat the performance vs an Ali more active and better ready to fight him. Remember Ali was just 6 months from a 4 year exile when they fought the first time. Ali would beat Foreman in 72 then loses/beats Norton. Ali gets his shot and beats Frazier in 74. George probably continues winning until he fights Holmes or Young. It's certainly conceivable that he does not get a title shot until Ali retires.
This is most plausible. Ali always beats Frazier in a rematch if it is 1973 or 1974. We must assume Foreman beats everyone apart from Ali and jimmy young, it is difficult to imagine when Foreman would get a shot at the title.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:49 AM   #13
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

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Total rubbish, 27 years old Frazier never before, or after fought a fight as good as he did against Ali in FOTC.

I agree,McVey. Frazier spilled it all out on that night.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

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Originally Posted by choklab View Post
This is most plausible. Ali always beats Frazier in a rematch if it is 1973 or 1974. We must assume Foreman beats everyone apart from Ali and jimmy young, it is difficult to imagine when Foreman would get a shot at the title.

Yes. In optimum condition,Ali was always going to beat Frazier from 1972 onwards.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Ali vs Foreman in 1972, does it change history?

Foreman vs Ali in any year from 1973 end on in e temper8 klaim8 wud hev "cheinjd history" .
4man >> Ali ez woz pruven bai Frazier , Norton & Chuvalo .
In adishen , 4man wud hev never hed trabel wiz Henry Cooper or Douglas Jones , I sink it iz e konsensus , m i rong ? der iz olweis sam1 idiot inaf 2 kleim det Jones or Cooper hed e chanc , laik dowz komplit ritards wu feivord Bonavena end Quarry over 4man .
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