Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-31-2008, 08:23 AM   #1
fg2227
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,117
vCash: 1000
Default Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Don't think he gets enough credit, Just watched Ali- patterson 2 fantastic brillant performance from floyd he was 37 and outweighed by 30 pounds.

I never quite realised how skillfull he was and his speed was lightning.
which brings me to my next point with the modern guys weighing so much i think that people make too much of a big deal about weight i.e Could a foreman or an Ali take on a guy the size of lennox? Give me speed and skill anyday of the week.

What do you guys think about my points?
fg2227 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-31-2008, 08:46 AM   #2
Dempsey1238
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Patterson would GET credit if he ever defended the title against a LIVED body in his title rein. You can only defend the title against the Jackson and Petes for so long until people demand a top contender like Liston or Folly.
Dempsey1238 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 08:54 AM   #3
Mike South
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 142
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fg2227
Don't think he gets enough credit, Just watched Ali- patterson 2 fantastic brillant performance from floyd he was 37 and outweighed by 30 pounds.

I never quite realised how skillfull he was and his speed was lightning.
which brings me to my next point with the modern guys weighing so much i think that people make too much of a big deal about weight i.e Could a foreman or an Ali take on a guy the size of lennox? Give me speed and skill anyday of the week.

What do you guys think about my points?
Based on your viewing of Ali Patterson 2, is it tha case that Floyd doesn't get enough credit, or is it the case that Ali gets too much?
Mike South is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 09:03 AM   #4
fg2227
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,117
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Hmmm good point! mike south i'm not sure now that you put it like that. I just feel that alot of fighters would struggle with that Ali.

I think that i just think of the floyd that got destroyed by Liston and so do alot of people. Don't get me wrong i'm not saying that floyd was invincible.
fg2227 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 09:52 AM   #5
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

I think Ali and Foreman are big enough to take on Lennox Lewis, just has Lewis is big enough to take on Valuev. Lewis actually lost to guys who were not really bigger than Foreman.

If you're good enough you're big enough. As Carmelo Modica says it's about talent. And yes, a 188 pound Dempsey poses a real threat to any behemoth.

Obviously almost all the heavyweights of the last 15 years have used steroids or growth hormones. It has made them all bigger, but has probably only made SOME of them better.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 02:27 PM   #6
Sardu
RIP Mr. Bun: 2007-2012
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,746
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Weight and size may not be important for one fight. However, over the course of a career facing men coniderably larger than oneself can bring dire consequences. Case in point: Jerry Quarry. He did well against guys like Mathis, Foster, Lyle, Shavers, etc. But these larger, heavier guys were still hitting him back. The big men in Dempsey's day were severely limited fighters. Compare Fred Fulton and Jess Willard to modern big men like Lennox Lewis and the Klitschkos. There is no comparision. There is a reason why a 200lb. Roy Jones decided not to defend the title he won from Ruiz. He knew that fighting the big guys is a very dangerous assignment. Patterson was a remarkable fighter. The only times he was really kayoed and overpowered was the first Johansson fight and the two Liston fights. Floyd was resilient and only those two guys (Johansson and Liston) with alltime great punching power kept him down. He was robbed against Ellis in 1968. By that time I guess they wanted new blood and Floyd was a veteran. One of the alltime great gentleman too. Everyone liked Floyd Patterson. Heck, even Liston loved the guy and that is saying alot! Liston did not like most people.
Sardu is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 02:57 PM   #7
Minotauro
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 2,495
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

I agree he doesn't get enough credit and was an amazing talent also Ali regarded him as the most talented fighter he ever fought.
Minotauro is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 11:33 AM   #8
jowcol
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,113
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardu
Floyd was resilient and only those two guys (Johansson and Liston) with alltime great punching power kept him down.
They didn't keep him down either. He always rose. You never saw Floyd lying prone with the ref tolling away.

As the resident Floyd lover, I have to say it was his own fault that he is, for the most part, underrated. He was just too passive and, save Ingo 2, never carried any killer instinct into the ring.
IMO if he kept that hungry Ingo 2 with him in his other fights
he would have, rather easily, gone 3-0 in his Quarry-Quarry-Ellis trifecta.

my $0.02
jowcol is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 12:02 PM   #9
Dempsey1238
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Well you may not have seen Liston 2 than. Patterson got the full count.
Dempsey1238 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 12:06 PM   #10
radianttwilight
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,272
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Patterson was unfortunate in having Sonny Liston coming in right after he won the title. Same thing happened with Frazier and Foreman.

These two champs more than anybody ran into somebody tailor-made to destroy them relatively early in their title reign.

Although his heavyweight H2H position suffers because of his small stature, he'd most likely be a light heavyweight in today's boxing.

I'd sure as hell pick him over Calzaghe and Hopkins.
radianttwilight is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 12:17 PM   #11
Dempsey1238
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by radianttwilight
Patterson was unfortunate in having Sonny Liston coming in right after he won the title. Same thing happened with Frazier and Foreman.

These two champs more than anybody ran into somebody tailor-made to destroy them relatively early in their title reign.

Although his heavyweight H2H position suffers because of his small stature, he'd most likely be a light heavyweight in today's boxing.

I'd sure as hell pick him over Calzaghe and Hopkins.
Right after he won the title?? Patterson was champ for YEARS from 1956 up until 61 or 62?? Liston didnt relly make noise until 58 though.
Dempsey1238 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 02:29 PM   #12
jowcol
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,113
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
Well you may not have seen Liston 2 than. Patterson got the full count.
Hey Demp!
As a Patterson lover, I've obviously seen all his fights that are available to see.
I could watch again (maybe not, too painful) but I always thought it was TKO in one, failure to rise in time KO in the other. But he was always getting up, that was my point. You know, maybe this is wishful thinking but I've always wondered what would have happened had the bell saved Floyd in Ingo 1. One thing you could always say about my hero, he had remarkable recouperative powers.

Edit: As to Patterson's 50's weak title defenses, that was all Cus's doing; in retrospect Floyd wanted the best available: Folley, Machen, Williams, DeJohn, an aging Valdez...etc. and I would daresay he may have run the table against them unless his passive soft nature got in the way...

And, as I've said before, with repeated viewings of the Ellis fight, it wasn't the robbery that many (including myself) had said it was.
Patterson simply NEVER consistantly stayed on the attack in his fights; that's why an assessment of him is so darned difficult.

How else can you explain how this HOF numbing left-hook, combination whirlwind would have to take 24 rounds to dispose of Roy Harris & Brian London?

It breaks my heart to realize how much more highly rated he could have been had he kept himself in more of a constant "seek & destroy" mode.

But I guess a less "kinder gentler" Floyd wouldn't have endeared himself to all of us as much...
jowcol is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 02:53 PM   #13
jc
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,536
vCash: 419
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Size does matter.

I think Patterson gets about as much credit as he deserves, he wasnt a great heavyweight champion, he was small and beatable, thats why he doesnt enter in many H2H arguments...I would pick most of todays average heavyweight champs to beat him.
jc is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 03:17 PM   #14
jowcol
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,113
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc
I would pick most of todays average heavyweight champs to beat him.
With all due respect, I totally disagree. Maybe you're a young man who wasn't around to see the division play out back then.

I've been struggling with the idea that comparing fighters in different eras is misleading, difficult, if not downright impossible!

Let me get nasty To say that Floyd loses to "todays average heavyweight champs" is, quite simply, an ill-informed joke!
jowcol is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 06:23 PM   #15
Dempsey1238
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd patterson Doesn't get enough credit!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jowcol
Hey Demp!
As a Patterson lover, I've obviously seen all his fights that are available to see.
I could watch again (maybe not, too painful) but I always thought it was TKO in one, failure to rise in time KO in the other. But he was always getting up, that was my point. You know, maybe this is wishful thinking but I've always wondered what would have happened had the bell saved Floyd in Ingo 1. One thing you could always say about my hero, he had remarkable recouperative powers.

Edit: As to Patterson's 50's weak title defenses, that was all Cus's doing; in retrospect Floyd wanted the best available: Folley, Machen, Williams, DeJohn, an aging Valdez...etc. and I would daresay he may have run the table against them unless his passive soft nature got in the way...

And, as I've said before, with repeated viewings of the Ellis fight, it wasn't the robbery that many (including myself) had said it was.
Patterson simply NEVER consistantly stayed on the attack in his fights; that's why an assessment of him is so darned difficult.

How else can you explain how this HOF numbing left-hook, combination whirlwind would have to take 24 rounds to dispose of Roy Harris & Brian London?

It breaks my heart to realize how much more highly rated he could have been had he kept himself in more of a constant "seek & destroy" mode.

But I guess a less "kinder gentler" Floyd wouldn't have endeared himself to all of us as much...
Patterson was not knock cold, but He was not getting up either, he took the full count on his butt. It was not like Marciano Charles II or Walcott Louis II were they ALMOST beat the count.
Dempsey1238 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013