boxing
Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-20-2012, 06:48 PM   #31
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,421
vCash: 475
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Seriously McGrain that stuff will kill you! No more bumps!
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-20-2012, 06:57 PM   #32
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,901
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13 View Post
I'm pretty sure, there are hundreds of bouts that were held in Philadelphia and New York every year during late 1890s and early 1900s, which are not in boxrec database. I was too lazy to be entering them when I was an editor, but I saw a lot of preliminary bouts that were not listed at boxrec, in Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia Record, and several New York newspapers. Local newspaper often reported not the full card, but only several bouts, the other newspaper could list the ones that were not mentioned in the first paper. That was common thing, we'd need to go through several local papers instead of one or two, to get the full card. Gans in particular, there were bouts held at Baltimore on an almost daily basis, sometimes at several venues on the same day, which were not in the boxrec. I have done the best I could to list all I found in Baltimore Sun during 1894 to 1896 if I remember, but after that, I only edited or entered Gans' bouts, not having the time to list everything else.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 10:07 PM   #33
Aaron Contreras
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Who is your avatar, brother?
Aaron Contreras is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 11:40 PM   #34
PhillyPhan69
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 3,881
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

I find it difficult to understand how anyone rates him outside of the top 3, unless they rely heavily upon hypothetical H2H scenerios and under value old timers or over value the modern eras....

Personally I rate him #3, but depending upon differing times of evaluating he has a valid argument for 1-3....Right now I go Benny, Roberto & Joe, but he deserves to be considered as top 3 and that seems the general consensus.
PhillyPhan69 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 01:44 AM   #35
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 23,354
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
He sat a top what I suspect was the deepest era of arguably the deepest division in the sport's history. He beat all types and styles. He showed the power, chin and heart to do great things without being the best boxer defensive artist of his era. Arguably #1 at LW, arguably top 10 all time p4p.
I think Leonard's was a stronger division.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 02:52 AM   #36
ripcity
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: "Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it."
Posts: 10,232
vCash: 964
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

My Lightweight rankings
1. Benny Leonard
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Joe Gans.

Pound for Pound? I'm not sure exataly. Top 25 for sure. I'm only commited to a top 6 in terms of pound for pound.
ripcity is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 07:13 AM   #37
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,901
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras View Post
Who is your avatar, brother?
Tommy West.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 08:27 AM   #38
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 23,035
vCash: 75
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69 View Post
I find it difficult to understand how anyone rates him outside of the top 3, unless they rely heavily upon hypothetical H2H scenerios and under value old timers or over value the modern eras....

Personally I rate him #3, but depending upon differing times of evaluating he has a valid argument for 1-3....Right now I go Benny, Roberto & Joe, but he deserves to be considered as top 3 and that seems the general consensus.
I think both Leonard and Roberto are greater than him.

I think he's as great as Whittaker, Armstrong and Williams all of whom I'd pick to beat him.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 08:32 AM   #39
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,901
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
Nice video. For a second, I thought someone had colorized one of the early fight films, but there wasn't enough wrestling.

I do not doubt that there are fights missing from important fighters records. What I am suggesting is that those missing fights are not important to judging their abilities at the highest level of competition. Whenever a John L. Sullivan fought a James J. Corbett we are likely to have a record of the fight.
So Boxrec is the tool you use to describe activity levels in different eras, but the fact that it doesn't describe activity levels in different eras doesn't matter?



I am talking about the highest levels of competition. Right now I'm looking into Tommy West, one of the most important contenders of his era, and his record is woefully inaccurate. I'm not talking about the Charlie Zelenoffs of that world, I'm talking about the Carl Froches.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 11:46 AM   #40
Minotauro
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 2,495
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

I rate him as the number 1 lightweight of all time and possible top ten p4p.
Minotauro is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 12:00 PM   #41
Ted Spoon
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,091
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Everybody is inclined to tip their hat to history, any man may acquiesce that a fighter was great for their time, but the beauty in Gan’s is that he is still combating that primitive prejudice.

When newcomers see him smoothly dispose of Kid Herman, they may still be opposed to the economic, slow-burning tango of the 1900’s, but they will readily concede that this guy had something.

Gan’s beautifully conveys through those flickering images that men in his era not only had a firm grasp of the finer details but that he himself was a truly exceptional and timeless talent. Timing, adaptation, grit – all the constituents that fashion our most extolled warriors he displayed like Morales does mileage.

He has a good argument to be placed at the top of a heavily crowded lightweight division. And it’s hardly a far-fetched notion that he could’ve stopped Benny Leonard or bemused Roberto Duran.

However, when it comes to resume, Leonard may just have the most impressive one ever recorded at a single weight.
Ted Spoon is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 01:07 PM   #42
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,978
vCash: 500
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras View Post
Who is your avatar, brother?
The original "Kid McCoy ". Norman Selby ...
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 01:33 PM   #43
Aaron Contreras
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
The original "Kid McCoy ". Norman Selby ...
The REAL Kid McCoy, if you asked him. But yes, I love that tricky, problematic man.

I was actually asking McGrain, who his avatar was: Tommy West, who McCoy ironically knocked out in 1896.
Aaron Contreras is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 02:26 PM   #44
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,855
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Spoon View Post
Everybody is inclined to tip their hat to history, any man may acquiesce that a fighter was great for their time, but the beauty in Ganís is that he is still combating that primitive prejudice.

When newcomers see him smoothly dispose of Kid Herman, they may still be opposed to the economic, slow-burning tango of the 1900ís, but they will readily concede that this guy had something.

Ganís beautifully conveys through those flickering images that men in his era not only had a firm grasp of the finer details but that he himself was a truly exceptional and timeless talent. Timing, adaptation, grit Ė all the constituents that fashion our most extolled warriors he displayed like Morales does mileage.

He has a good argument to be placed at the top of a heavily crowded lightweight division. And itís hardly a far-fetched notion that he couldíve stopped Benny Leonard or bemused Roberto Duran.

However, when it comes to resume, Leonard may just have the most impressive one ever recorded at a single weight.
Fine piece of insight and well put.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 04:15 AM   #45
louis3749
Journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 64
vCash: 500
Default Re: Where Do You Rank Joe Gans?

at Lightweight i have him at #2 behind Leonard, and only by a hair. p4p he is currently my #3.
louis3749 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015