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Old 10-21-2012, 10:09 PM   #1
Colonel Sanders
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Default Jim Jeffries, underated ?

I think I have never seen his name crack a top 10 at HW despite the fact that he has an astonishing record.

Gentlement Jim Corbett X2
Peter Jackson
T. Sharkey X2
Fitz X 2
Choynski
Ruhlin X 2


Undefeated during a 5 years reign as champion. His lone loss suffered at the hands of a top 3 HW great in Johnson when Jim dropped from 300 pounds to 225 lbs and put an end to a 4 years retirement.

He also looked like a ****ing beast.

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If you think Jeffries doesn't deserve a top 10 ranking, elaborate.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:18 PM   #2
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

I guess if one wanted a reason its the lack of fights. quantity has a quality.all its own.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sanders View Post
I think I have never seen his name crack a top 10 at HW despite the fact that he has an astonishing record.

Gentlement Jim Corbett X2
Peter Jackson
T. Sharkey X2
Fitz X 2
Choynski
Ruhlin X 2


Undefeated during a 5 years reign as champion. His lone loss suffered at the hands of a top 3 HW great in Johnson when Jim dropped from 300 pounds to 225 lbs and put an end to a 4 years retirement.

He also looked like a ****ing beast.

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If you think Jeffries doesn't deserve a top 10 ranking, elaborate.
Well, if that's your list, that's your list, mate.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Fought a bunch of old, spindly middleweights, perhaps?

Jackson was a washed-up drunk by the time he got in the ring with Jeffries. Sharkey was just a sawed-off face first slugger. Corbett could barely be considered an active prizefighter he fought so infrequently. It's not a cast that inspires awe.

On the positive side, he was mostly a work in progress, and progressed quickly and far under the heat of fire. He was undoubtedly at his best when he retired. And he beat the best his era offered.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Well, if that's your list, that's your list, mate.
Jack Johnson is in most credible people top 3.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Great point made, sir.

There's a million reasons why he shouldn't be top-10. But hell, there's a million other reasons that could argue his way in. But, surely, there is absolutely no reason for him not to be in the discussion.

It should be noted though -- both Nat Fleischer (1972) and Charley Rose in 1968, rank him #5 and #2, respectively, in their all-time heavyweight rankings.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sanders View Post
Jack Johnson is in most credible people top 3.
There is no way on earth Johnson deserves #3. That's simply fantasy.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
There is no way on earth Johnson deserves #3. That's simply fantasy.
Dempsey, Marciano, or Langford don't deserve to be placed above him.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
There is no way on earth Johnson deserves #3. That's simply fantasy.
off the top of my head

McVey
Langford
Jeffries
Burns
Jeanette

those are great names to put on a record
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras View Post
Dempsey, Marciano, or Langford don't deserve to be placed above him.
I would make an argument for Marciano but they are very close. I agree with you on the other two.

This has been hashed out a dozen or so times around here. Better not to derail this thread.

As far as Jeffries, it's hard to say how he is rated today, probably underrated a bit. He was very highly rated in his day and for a time afterward but has definitely slipped. The succession of Johnson, Dempsey and Louis certainly had something to do with that.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras View Post
Dempsey, Marciano, or Langford don't deserve to be placed above him.
I can see a case for Marciano honestly......
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sanders View Post
off the top of my head

McVey
Langford
Jeffries
Burns
Jeanette

those are great names to put on a record
Fitzsimmons
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Ketchel
Peter Jackson
Frank Childs was the 'colored heavyweight champion'

Some of these guys were undersized, but look good on Jackson's record, nonetheless.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
I would make an argument for Marciano but they are very close. I agree with you on the other two.

This has been hashed out a dozen or so times around here. Better not to derail this thread.

As far as Jeffries, it's hard to say how he is rated today, probably underrated a bit. He was very highly rated in his day and for a time afterward but has definitely slipped. The succession of Johnson, Dempsey and Louis certainly had something to do with that.
I actually have Marciano 3rd of the three heavyweights I names, but to each its own.

But I hope we can agree Jeffries is underrated.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sanders View Post
Jack Johnson is in most credible people top 3.
Is he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
It might throw up some interesting stuff. Your rating of Langford is going to draw stares on the street.

01 - Muhammad Ali
02 - Joe Louis
03 - Sonny Liston
04 - Lennox Lewis
05 - Joe Frazier
06 - Jack Johnson
07 - Larry Holmes
08 - Mike Tyson
09 - Rocky Marciano
10 - Harry Wills
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Sonny Liston
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Mike Tyson
7. Larry Holmes
8. George Foreman
9. Jack Johnson
10. Joe Frazier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumsfeld View Post
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Marciano
5. Johnson
6. Foreman
7. Lennox
8. Frazier
9. Dempsey
10. Liston
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
My list is always progressive (In terms of always changing/adapting) Currently my top 10 HW list looks like.

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Marciano
4. Foreman
5. Frazier
6. Dempsey
7. Liston
8. Holmes
9. Johnson
10. Tyson

As far as the barely missed the cut and still in contention of making the top 10. That list would be (Holyfield, Lewis, Jeffries).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea View Post
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Jack Johnson
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Rocky Marciano
9. Joe Frazier
10. Mike Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD FOGEY View Post
1---Muhammad Ali
2---Joe Louis
3---Rocky Marciano
4---Lennox Lewis
5---Jim Jeffries
6---Larry Holmes
7---Jack Johnson
8---George Foreman
9---Joe Frazier
10--Evander Holyfield

Rated on historical impact only--not h2h at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Lewis
4. Marciano
5. Dempsey
6. Liston
7. Holmes
8. Holyfield
9. Tyson
10. Foreman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Mike Tyson
5. George Foreman
6. Sonny Liston
7. Rocky Marciano
8. Joe Frazier
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Jersey Joe Walcott

5-9 is very hard to get an exact order but this is my feeling today so mark this down as my official list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew101 View Post
The current list:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Larry Holmes
5. George Foreman
6. Lennox Lewis
7. Jack Johnson
8. Joe Frazier
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Mike Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cobra View Post
1. Muhammed Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Larry Holmes
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Sonny Liston
7. Jack Johnson
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Evander Holyfield
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhascup View Post
This is rated by watching films, their records, who they beat and when, head to head, and what other top boxing historians stated.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Jack Johnson
7. Sonny Liston
8. Joe Frazier
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Rocky Marciano


The only one that gives me trouble is Lewis. I want to put him a lot higher BUT being stopped by McCall and Rahman makes that hard, even if he did KO both of them in return bouts.


Also, head to head I think Tyson would have beat Marciano BUT Rocky's overall career was much better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Lewis
4. Tyson
5. Holmes
6. Marciano
7. Foreman
8. Dempsey
9. W. Klitschko
10. Charles Liston
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumsfeld View Post
HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION RESULTS:

22 heavyweights received votes in the polls. Based on the scoring system, these are the results:

1. 1675 Muhammad Ali (52)
2. 1375 Joe Louis (23)
3. 638 Rocky Marciano (1)
4. 580 Larry Holmes
5. 488 Lennox Lewis (1)
6. 462 Jack Johnson (1)
7. 318
(tie) George Foreman
7. 318
(tie) Jack Dempsey (2)
9. 233 Mike Tyson
10. 221 Joe Frazier

11. 217 Sonny Liston
12. 106 Evander Holyfield
13. 67 Jim Jeffries
14. 23 Gene Tunney
15. 21 Sam Langford
16. 16 Harry Wills
17. 15 Jersey Joe Walcott
18. 14 John L. Sullivan
19. 8 Ezzard Charles
20. 2 (tie) Wladimi Klitschko
20. 2 (tie) Riddick Bowe
22. 1 Floyd Patterson

Here is the distribution of votes.
TOTAL LISTS - NAME - (1st-2nd-3rd-4-5-6-7-8-9-10)

80 Muhammad Ali (52 20 3 3 0 1 1 0 0 0)
80 Joe Louis (23 50 1 1 2 2 0 0 1 0)
78 Rocky Marciano (1 3 22 13 9 8 8 6 4 4)
72 Larry Holmes (0 1 18 14 14 10 8 3 2 2)
66 Lennox Lewis (1 0 11 12 14 7 8 8 3 2)
60 Jack Johnson (1 4 10 11 5 10 9 4 3 3)
67 George Foreman (0 0 2 5 10 9 14 15 6 6)
52 Jack Dempsey (2 1 4 7 5 6 7 5 7
49 Mike Tyson (0 1 2 7 5 5 1 8 11 9)
65 Joe Frazier (0 0 2 0 3 9 10 16 15 10)
52 Sonny Liston (0 0 2 2 7 7 10 2 14
35 Evander Holyfield (0 0 0 2 2 2 2 9 7 11)
10 Jim Jeffries (0 0 2 1 2 2 0 2 0 1)
7 Gene Tunney (0 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 3)
9 Sam Langford (0 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 2 4)
5 Harry Wills (0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 4)
6 Jersey Joe Walcott (0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 3)
3 John L. Sullivan (0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1)
1 Ezzard Charles (0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0)
1 Wladimi Klitschko (0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0)
1 Riddick Bowe (0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0)
1 Floyd Patterson (0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1)

More data to follow.

Begob! He's not on my top three either.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Is he?
By credible people, I'm assuming, he's referring to historians and writers. Bert Sugar, Teddy Atlas, amongst others, have Johnson ranked 3rd.

No offense to the ESB'ers you quoted -- but I'd acknowledge Sugar and Atlas as credible, before them as well.
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