Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-21-2012, 11:45 PM   #16
Boxed Ears
ESB #1 Name Changer!
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, USA
Posts: 24,750
vCash: 26665
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras View Post
By credible people, I'm assuming, he's referring to historians and writers. Bert Sugar, Teddy Atlas, amongst others, have Johnson ranked 3rd.

No offense to the ESB'ers you quoted -- but I'd acknowledge Sugar and Atlas as credible, before them as well.
You know, I probably would've said the same thing when I started out here. Now, of course, I cringe when I think about any comment I might run across confirming this horrible idea being brewed in my mind.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 10-21-2012, 11:50 PM   #17
Aaron Contreras
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
You know, I probably would've said the same thing when I started out here. Now, of course, I cringe when I think about any comment I might run across confirming this horrible idea being brewed in my mind.
Lennox Lewis is top-freaking-5 in some of those rankings. As well as Tyson being in most of them.

Aaron Contreras is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 11:55 PM   #18
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,215
vCash: 475
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras View Post
Lennox Lewis is top-freaking-5 in some of those rankings. As well as Tyson being in most of them.

I see noting wrong with either of those things even if I don't personally agree.with them.
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 11:56 PM   #19
Colonel Sanders
NSB defector
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,667
vCash: 500
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Is he? Begob! He's not on my top three either.
some of these rankings are a total joke

I have seen Tyson at no. 4 somewhere, and Liston no. 3

Colonel Sanders is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 11:59 PM   #20
Aaron Contreras
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
I see noting wrong with either of those things even if I don't personally agree.with them.
I highly disagree with them and find them quite preposterous, at that.
Aaron Contreras is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:00 AM   #21
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,215
vCash: 475
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Really? Preposterous? How high is reasonable for say Tyson?
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:01 AM   #22
Colonel Sanders
NSB defector
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,667
vCash: 500
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

these had me

03 - Sonny Liston
04 - Lennox Lewis
6. Mike Tyson
3. Lewis
4. Mike Tyson
4. Tyson
Colonel Sanders is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:01 AM   #23
Colonel Sanders
NSB defector
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,667
vCash: 500
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
Really? Preposterous? How high is reasonable for say Tyson?
top 10-15
Colonel Sanders is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:04 AM   #24
Aaron Contreras
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
Really? Preposterous? How high is reasonable for say Tyson?
Off the top of my head. Top-15, or so, depending on how you rank the great weight-climbers of yesteryear.
Aaron Contreras is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:06 AM   #25
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,215
vCash: 475
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

How do you feel about Terry McGovern? What seperates, in your mind, a top 15 guy like Tyson from a guy like say Dempsey?
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:08 AM   #26
Colonel Sanders
NSB defector
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,667
vCash: 500
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
How do you feel about Terry McGovern? What seperates, in your mind, a top 15 guy like Tyson from a guy like say Dempsey?
Dempsey is not top 5 in my book
Colonel Sanders is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:11 AM   #27
Aaron Contreras
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
How do you feel about Terry McGovern? What seperates, in your mind, a top 15 guy like Tyson from a guy like say Dempsey?
McGovern, again, off the top of my head -- top-30 or 40, at least.

Tyson and Dempsey, mainly clutch gene. Bright lights went on (metaphor, of course) and Dempsey went for blood, Tyson shriveled.

Tyson didn't do great against the best fighters he faced.
Aaron Contreras is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:21 AM   #28
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,215
vCash: 475
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

The best fighter Dempsey faced was Tunney and he lost convincingly twice. I'm aware he was past his best. But Tyson cleaned out his division just as thoroughly as Jack (probably moreso) and was just as impressive and consistent, and he was the same age more or less when he lost to Holyfield as Dempsey was when he lost to Tunney and probably nearly as rusty. Tyson has a comeback after Douglas that includes several wins over top 10 opponents whereas Dempsey just has Sharkey, as impressive as that is. There title resigns were essentially the same length. I just don't see much room between them.
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:31 AM   #29
Colonel Sanders
NSB defector
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,667
vCash: 500
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
The best fighter Dempsey faced was Tunney and he lost convincingly twice. I'm aware he was past his best. But Tyson cleaned out his division just as thoroughly as Jack (probably moreso) and was just as impressive and consistent, and he was the same age more or less when he lost to Holyfield as Dempsey was when he lost to Tunney and probably nearly as rusty. Tyson has a comeback after Douglas that includes several wins over top 10 opponents whereas Dempsey just has Sharkey, as impressive as that is. There title resigns were essentially the same length. I just don't see much room between them.
Tyson ducked both Holyfield and Foreman pre-Douglas

he was supposed to fight Holy after tune-up Douglas as it was overdue already, but didn't obviously

Tyson (or King, whatever) paid Lewis step aside money to finally fight what they thought was a shot Holy

Tyson got beat down

Tyson feisted on past prime former champions in his prime : Thomas, Tubbs, Holmes, inactive Spinks

he also beat a couple decent fighters like Bruno, Smith, Tucker, but no great opponent stands out

to his credit though, he dispatched most of them in brutal fashion

what hurts Tyson the most are his 3 first losses, as Contreras said
Colonel Sanders is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 12:36 AM   #30
Aaron Contreras
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 249
vCash: 500
Default Re: Jim Jeffries, underated ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
The best fighter Dempsey faced was Tunney and he lost convincingly twice. I'm aware he was past his best. But Tyson cleaned out his division just as thoroughly as Jack (probably moreso) and was just as impressive and consistent, and he was the same age more or less when he lost to Holyfield as Dempsey was when he lost to Tunney and probably nearly as rusty. Tyson has a comeback after Douglas that includes several wins over top 10 opponents whereas Dempsey just has Sharkey, as impressive as that is. There title resigns were essentially the same length. I just don't see much room between them.
You bring up some good points. But, Dempsey never lost his cool, he was the trailblazer for Tyson's swarming style, he ran through people in such a ruthless way that people had never seen before. All while Dempsey would've been a cruiserweight today. Sure, Tyson was shorter, but much heavier than Dempsey.

And rankings weren't really kept thoroughly until AFTER the 1920's.

And Dempsey would've recorded a knockout over Gene Tunney in The Long Count, had the ref started the 10-count when he should've.
Aaron Contreras is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013