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View Poll Results: Will you rank Bernard Hopkins over Floyd and Manny on the ATG LIST?
Yes Bernard over both 26 33.33%
No. Floyd Or Manny deserve to be ranked higher overall 52 66.67%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-22-2012, 03:47 PM   #61
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

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Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
No love for Duran?

Forgot Duran! Much of his prime was during the 70's and so I wouldn't have him near the top, but the wins over Leonard, Moore and Barkley were brilliant. I'd swap Tyson with Jones, and have Duran below Chavez sr
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:47 PM   #62
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

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Originally Posted by ConserveWater View Post
Overall I agree with most of what you are saying. Didn't mean to sound like a asshole, just got a bit irritated when you say Floyd-Pac DOMINATES and smokes Bernard in terms of ATG Rankings.

I won't mind if Floyd or Pac gets ranked above Bernard, but I think to most intelligent boxing fans and boxing writers/historians agree that neither one 'smokes and destroys' Bernard in terms of resume/accomplishments.

When you say Floyd/Pac Smokes Bernard, that's probably an over exaggeration.

Most people are open to debate, but when one side takes a extremest stance it's pointless.
Is cool.

Also i don't think boxing writers holds more value than anyone else. A non-bias Historian holds ground but most are bias for fighter in their era.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:00 PM   #63
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

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Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
The guy didn't even know he beat Dawson
Bhop never beat Dawson get with the program.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:09 PM   #64
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

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Originally Posted by tliang1000 View Post
Bhop never beat Dawson get with the program.
Dude, go to the original post. He's talking about Jean Pascal.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:17 PM   #65
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

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Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
Dude, go to the original post. He's talking about Jean Pascal.
Ah. I didn't see his highlight part. I thought he was talking about bhop. I was about to say it was unlike for Turbo. Apologies.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:37 PM   #66
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

Every argument for Hopkins "waaah waaah he was 40 waaah waaah, **** Floyd"
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:42 PM   #67
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

No.

But i am very confident that current Hopkins would beat Froch, possibly pretty badly given their styles.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:47 PM   #68
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

Bernard is underated
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:04 PM   #69
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

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Originally Posted by tliang1000 View Post
I didn't know the IBF was littered with big names. look at all the top names Bhop fought during his mandatories.
He still did what he was supposed to do. He reigned as champ for 10 years. He got all the belts as well. Then he moves up and accomplishes feats as well.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:25 PM   #70
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

Floyd/Pac don't "Dominate" shit when it comes to accomplishments up against Hopkins.

He has the record for his defense of the middleweight title
Is the oldest champion in the history of boxing
2 weight champion
5 wins coming as the underdog
Rated #1 P4P

Wins over Echols, Holmes, Joppy, Eastman, Trinidad, Wright, Tarver, Pavlik, Pascal, Delahoya

The only thing Pac/Floyd have over Hops is they have more titles in more divisions. Which is actually an easier accomplishment at the lower weights since a lot of the weights are separated by a few pounds.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:30 PM   #71
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

I have Manny and Floyd both over him. Both have better resumes and accomplishments and both are better fighters in their primes and showed it, as far as I'm concerned. Longevity is great, but one must also consider number of fights, the quality of fighters and the style of the fighter to understand their longevity. That goes beyond what casuals can grasp, which is whatever age they are. It's frankly mind-boggling that Pacquiao is even still around and on a good card just defeated a good, vastly fresher, undefeated fighter, at this late stage in the game. Mayweather is just as smart a boxer as Hopkins, except he's a much more talented athlete, and he's beaten a higher quality of boxers, more convincingly, even as his athleticism has faded. And done it cleaner (a sucker punch is when the fight isn't actually supposed to be on, sorry).

And, about the one thing Hopkins really has over both, the oldest champ? The longevity? It's great, but there's another angle to it. Let's look at their championship years. 1998-2012 are the championship years of Pac and May. That's against Bernard's 1995-2012. So far, I see just a few years difference longevity at the world level, there. And Pac's only had two less fights than Hopkins. Floyd's also won nearly the same amount of world title fights, both in the twenties (which is enormous, of course). I see their longevity as not being as far apart as you'd be led to believe by taking the easy route and only considering their ages and not what's taken place within that time. And the wear and tear of a higher level of competition you are likely to endure.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:43 PM   #72
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

Maybe higher than Floyd. I disagree with the sentiment that Mayweather has a stronger resume or was even a better fighter peak for peak. If he was, it wasn't by much (which, of course, goes for Pac as well). Pit Hopkins against the best all time at 160 and Floyd against the best all time at 135, and I'd expect Nard to do better against the field, honestly. Still, it's a maybe. They're certainly close as far as I can see.


He very clearly should not rank above Pacquiao.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:59 PM   #73
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

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Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
Floyd/Pac don't "Dominate" shit when it comes to accomplishments up against Hopkins.

He has the record for his defense of the middleweight title
Is the oldest champion in the history of boxing
2 weight champion
5 wins coming as the underdog
Rated #1 P4P

Wins over Echols, Holmes, Joppy, Eastman, Trinidad, Wright, Tarver, Pavlik, Pascal, Delahoya

The only thing Pac/Floyd have over Hops is they have more titles in more divisions. Which is actually an easier accomplishment at the lower weights since a lot of the weights are separated by a few pounds.
If his record for his defense is so great than I guess Joe Cal should be ranked over bhop in rankings then since he have even more defenses at Super middle. Defending in the IBF division against contenders and rookies just doesn't mount to moving up in weight and dethroning division higher champs IMO.

If Pac and FLoyd never move up in weight they would be just as dominate if not more.

It took Bhop 20 years to jump back into LHW division where he debuted from. He choose to drop 2 weight division to fight smaller men. So it doesn't matter if it seperate by a few lbs.

Bhop 2 weight whilest Floyd is 5 and Pac is 8. Why you bring this as a debate is beyond me.

Wins over Echols, Holmes, Joppy, Eastman, Trinidad, Wright, Tarver, Pavlik, Pascal, Delahoya doesn't top Manny or Floyd's. You have got to be kidding me. Floyd and Manny have more big names than Bhop.
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:01 PM   #74
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

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Originally Posted by the cobra View Post
Maybe higher than Floyd. I disagree with the sentiment that Mayweather has a stronger resume or was even a better fighter peak for peak. If he was, it wasn't by much (which, of course, goes for Pac as well). Pit Hopkins against the best all time at 160 and Floyd against the best all time at 135, and I'd expect Nard to do better against the field, honestly. Still, it's a maybe. They're certainly close as far as I can see.







He very clearly should not rank above Pacquiao.
I have Floyd to edge out Manny's resume. Floyd fought guys coming off wins/while they are revelent. Pac's catchweights and fighting guys coming off losses hurt his resume. However I gave Manny in more ability to beat bigger guys for he went 8 divisions. All in all they are pretty even.
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:01 PM   #75
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins: higher on ATG list than Floyd and Manny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
Floyd/Pac don't "Dominate" shit when it comes to accomplishments up against Hopkins.

He has the record for his defense of the middleweight title
Is the oldest champion in the history of boxing
2 weight champion
5 wins coming as the underdog
Rated #1 P4P

Wins over Echols, Holmes, Joppy, Eastman, Trinidad, Wright, Tarver, Pavlik, Pascal, Delahoya

The only thing Pac/Floyd have over Hops is they have more titles in more divisions. Which is actually an easier accomplishment at the lower weights since a lot of the weights are separated by a few pounds.
Let's compare their 5 best wins each
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