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Old 11-03-2012, 06:35 AM   #166
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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Mike in 1990 was not the same Mike as in 1987. Not in my mind. Mike moved his head more and worked his way inside where he worked the body and hit the head. Mike's style was great if he fought a lot. He was brilliant in that situation. By 1990 he was getting inactive since this was his only 3rd fight since he fought Spinks in June of 1988, and he was not with Rooney anymore, he had those guys whose names slip me now. It has been a long time.
not at 100% I agree. But the fight was so one sided, i see nothing to suggest mike ever had more than a puchers chance. They never had a rematch so we just have to go off what we saw during their respective prime years and that is that buster kicks his arse.

Honestly based on what i saw that night, id favour Douglas again in a rematch.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:58 AM   #167
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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Tyson was at his best in 1987. As Lennox said after he fought Mike, Mike was at his best at 19. Some fighters age like wine. Meaning, the best Ray Leonard beats the best Roberto Duran. Roberto already knew Ray's style. If that was the real Ray Leonard why couldn't he duplicate it again? And if you look at the second fight, Ray started to hit Duran to the head and body in the 7th and 8th rounds.
Tokyo Tyson 1 was the Tyson who KO'd Tubbs in 2 round. That Tokyo Tyson might well beat Tokyo Douglas. Mike was at his best at 21.

As for Leonard-Duran, you could just as easily say the second fight "wasn't the real Duran".
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:11 AM   #168
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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Tommy Ryan is my pick for WW bar setter- that meaning he was the first genuinely great fighter in the division and for anyone else to be called great they have to match him or better.

From what I can gather he had about a 10 year period as a prime fighter and spent 59 months as the best MW in the world (over 2 stints) and 90 months as the best WW in the world (over 1 stint).

Meaningful MW resume: M Smith (x2), Green (x2), Bonner, Dunfee, Purtell, Moffat, Craig, West, Garrard - McCoy (L), Green (L).

Meaningful WW resume: NP Dempsey, M Smith, Needham, Tracy (x2) - M Smith (D).

On paper he's a worthwhile pick, I wouldn't disagree and I have them two right next to each other on my WW list (20: Duran, 21: Ryan).

However Duran is an exceptional talent who is proven against another exceptional talent (Leonard) in a fight we can all watch. We can view many of his fights and get an accurate gauge of his abilities in the ring. The same cannot be said for Ryan. I'd be uneasy making many people a favourite over Duran, let alone a man I've never seen fight.
good post
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:47 PM   #169
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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You expect Floyd to out-maneuver and out-do Duran on the inside? You think he's more skilled on the inside? Based on what exactly?

Duran is one of the most skilled fighters on the inside to ever operate inside a ring. His displays against Buchanan, Palomino, Leonard, Barkley, Cuevas, all indicate he is the superior infighter.

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Once he ties up that right hand at close range, it doesn't look good for Floyd in the pocket.
I expect Duran to lose anyway. As in, he'll have some success on the inside, but important parts of the fight will be fought in the center of the ring.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:38 PM   #170
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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I expect Duran to lose anyway. As in, he'll have some success on the inside, but important parts of the fight will be fought in the center of the ring.
I don't see how Floyd escapes one of the best pressure fighters in history with his linear habits.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:43 PM   #171
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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I don't see how Floyd escapes one of the best pressure fighters in history with his linear habits.
Floyd isn't exactly Vitali Klitschko with moving straight back. I can't get over Duran's trio of loses to boxers in his prime.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:05 PM   #172
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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not at 100% I agree. But the fight was so one sided, i see nothing to suggest mike ever had more than a puchers chance. They never had a rematch so we just have to go off what we saw during their respective prime years and that is that buster kicks his arse.

Honestly based on what i saw that night, id favour Douglas again in a rematch.
I have a hard time favoring Douglas. Just on the uppercut which landed in round 8, and how sure I am Tyson would land his punch early like he did on everyone including Larry Holmes, who I think had a better jab than Douglas. Douglas had a decent right hand ,but otherwise everything else Larry did better.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:06 PM   #173
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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I don't see how Floyd escapes one of the best pressure fighters in history with his linear habits.
same way Leonard or Benitez did. Use movement, handspeed and holding to land his punches and avoid Duran's. I would mention Hearns, but Hearns beating Duran was sort of unorthodox as far as how others have beaten Duran, but had Tommy wanted to outbox Duran he would have.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:07 PM   #174
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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Tokyo Tyson 1 was the Tyson who KO'd Tubbs in 2 round. That Tokyo Tyson might well beat Tokyo Douglas. Mike was at his best at 21.

As for Leonard-Duran, you could just as easily say the second fight "wasn't the real Duran".
ok Tokyo Tyson 1 was Tubbs. I forgot about that, but now I remember. I remember how quiet it was in the arena in round one watching it on HBO. You could hear the punches.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:19 PM   #175
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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same way Leonard or Benitez did. Use movement, handspeed and holding to land his punches and avoid Duran's. I would mention Hearns, but Hearns beating Duran was sort of unorthodox as far as how others have beaten Duran, but had Tommy wanted to outbox Duran he would have.
Mayweather isn't as unorthodox as either guys, and nor is he as natural a welter as these guys are, farrrrr from it, actually.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:23 PM   #176
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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MAG, Ray fought like he always did that night. Ray rarely ever moved like he did in New Orleans, and when he did, it was against a badly prepared Duran, and even then, the fight was competitive, and regardless, Floyd has never boxed like that. You need to stop your obsession with exaggerating Duran's stylistic weaknesses.
Ray always fought moving his legs a little. When he had a guy who was easy to hit he would stay in front of him and tee off, but when he had to he moved. With Duran in the first fight he stood and fought him and in the rematch he moved and won easily. Ray was a different fighter and better fighter than all those guys who you mentioned, and Cuevas was washed up when he fought Duran and 3 years from when he held the title. Palomino would never beat Duran or any elite fighter like Duran or Hearns.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:25 PM   #177
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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Mayweather isn't as unorthodox as either guys, and nor is he as natural a welter as these guys are, farrrrr from it, actually.
Yeah i know. I always thought the mindset of Floyd and his style could beat Duran. Wilfred Benitez and Floyd are not too dissimilar, although Wilfred fought better guys than Floyd has. Wilfred was a master vs. Duran.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:46 PM   #178
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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I have a hard time favoring Douglas. Just on the uppercut which landed in round 8, and how sure I am Tyson would land his punch early like he did on everyone including Larry Holmes, who I think had a better jab than Douglas. Douglas had a decent right hand ,but otherwise everything else Larry did better.
not the version that mike beat.

douglas proved superiority.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:57 PM   #179
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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Floyd isn't exactly Vitali Klitschko with moving straight back. I can't get over Duran's trio of loses to boxers in his prime.
No matter how hard you weigh the losses, they have little bearing on the reality that Duran, being a more skilled pressure fighter than Floyd has ever fought, would corned him more often than any of those fighters, and once there, out-do him on the inside.

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Ray always fought moving his legs a little. When he had a guy who was easy to hit he would stay in front of him and tee off, but when he had to he moved. With Duran in the first fight he stood and fought him and in the rematch he moved and won easily. Ray was a different fighter and better fighter than all those guys who you mentioned, and Cuevas was washed up when he fought Duran and 3 years from when he held the title. Palomino would never beat Duran or any elite fighter like Duran or Hearns.
15 rounds and Ray couldn't do a thing, he's smart enough to adjust to win in his favor as he had many times before. Whether in the center of the ring or against the ropes, he couldn't do a thing. Only when he knew Duran was ill-prepared could he clown like that.

You can take virtually any fighter who lost a bout and say "if they tweaked this or fought like that, they could have won." They were both in top shape and had 15 rounds to sort it out. Leonard had no choice in how the fight was being fought.

I don't see your point in pointing out Cuevas and Palomino were inferior to Duran. We know that, he beat them.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:20 PM   #180
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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Mayweather isn't as unorthodox as either guys, and nor is he as natural a welter as these guys are, farrrrr from it, actually.
De Jesus?
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