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Old 11-03-2012, 09:22 PM   #181
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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No matter how hard you weigh the losses, they have little bearing on the reality that Duran, being a more skilled pressure fighter than Floyd has ever fought, would corned him more often than any of those fighters, and once there, out-do him on the inside.



15 rounds and Ray couldn't do a thing, he's smart enough to adjust to win in his favor as he had many times before. Whether in the center of the ring or against the ropes, he couldn't do a thing. Only when he knew Duran was ill-prepared could he clown like that.

You can take virtually any fighter who lost a bout and say "if they tweaked this or fought like that, they could have won." They were both in top shape and had 15 rounds to sort it out. Leonard had no choice in how the fight was being fought.

I don't see your point in pointing out Cuevas and Palomino were inferior to Duran. We know that, he beat them.
Ray fought that way normally. He adjusted in the rematch. But he wasn't actually forced out of his normal style in the first fight.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:22 PM   #182
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

very very few beat Duran from that night... All time performance from an all time fighter
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:23 PM   #183
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

It's not like Duran wouldn't be just fine on the outside with Floyd anyway. If he chose to force the fight to the inside, which he would (often and very successfully), he'd more or less beat the absolute **** out of Mayweather there. One's very good there, the other's the best ever there, and the kind of guy who wants to beat the **** out of you anyway. For the majority of the fight, Duran would be the guy who decides where the action takes place, but even setting that aside, the advantage Duran would hold up close is considerably greater than the advantage Floyd would have on the outside.

Against a good majority of the greats within his weight range, I'd either favor Floyd or at least make him 50/50 against them. Not Duran though. He's not beating peak Duran.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:50 PM   #184
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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It's not like Duran wouldn't be just fine on the outside with Floyd anyway. If he chose to force the fight to the inside, which he would (often and very successfully), he'd more or less beat the absolute **** out of Mayweather there. One's very good there, the other's the best ever there, and the kind of guy who wants to beat the **** out of you anyway. For the majority of the fight, Duran would be the guy who decides where the action takes place, but even setting that aside, the advantage Duran would hold up close is considerably greater than the advantage Floyd would have on the outside.

Against a good majority of the greats within his weight range, I'd either favor Floyd or at least make him 50/50 against them. Not Duran though. He's not beating peak Duran.
Great points

I mean Leonard as at least equal or greater to Floyd in terms of reach at 74 inches, and it wasn't nearly enough to compensate for the footspeed Duran employs when countering his way onto the inside.

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Old 11-03-2012, 09:54 PM   #185
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

They had a rematch and Duran quit because Leonard chose to use his feet. Shocking how a fighter can get old overnight.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:01 PM   #186
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

I forget what round but Duran slipped about 6 punches during Leonard's usual flurry, I musta rewinded that moment at least 3 times.

I was awed by his head movement. Floyd will be looking for single shots, I think he'd be severely surprised at how Duran will handle them.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:23 PM   #187
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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I forget what round but Duran slipped about 6 punches during Leonard's usual flurry, I musta rewinded that moment at least 3 times.

I was awed by his head movement. Floyd will be looking for single shots, I think he'd be severely surprised at how Duran will handle them.
Duran was all fired up for that fight. He hated Leonards guts. He'd probably have hated Mayweather's too.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:12 AM   #188
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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They had a rematch and Duran quit because Leonard chose to use his feet. Shocking how a fighter can get old overnight.
Right, 15 rounds to adjust and the thought never crossed Leonard's mind. Nevermind the infamous weight-drain which Leonard admits to planning to. Or the fact Floyd never moves like that.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:21 AM   #189
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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Well we know Leonard wouldn't beat him that night because he actually lost to him that night

It's the one pick we can be 100% about.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:27 AM   #190
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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not the version that mike beat.

douglas proved superiority.
On that night Douglas fought his best fight he could and Mike did not. Yet the one time Mike hit him clean Douglas went down in round 8 and almost stayed down. I think a younger Mike hits him like he hit most guys and stops him early.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:36 AM   #191
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
No matter how hard you weigh the losses, they have little bearing on the reality that Duran, being a more skilled pressure fighter than Floyd has ever fought, would corned him more often than any of those fighters, and once there, out-do him on the inside.



15 rounds and Ray couldn't do a thing, he's smart enough to adjust to win in his favor as he had many times before. Whether in the center of the ring or against the ropes, he couldn't do a thing. Only when he knew Duran was ill-prepared could he clown like that.

You can take virtually any fighter who lost a bout and say "if they tweaked this or fought like that, they could have won." They were both in top shape and had 15 rounds to sort it out. Leonard had no choice in how the fight was being fought.

I don't see your point in pointing out Cuevas and Palomino were inferior to Duran. We know that, he beat them.
Ray had it in his mind to brawl and beat Duran at his own game in Montreal if you take what Rays says as truth. And I believe him, because later he tried being more psychological as though he really admired how Duran could sucker him into fight his fight.

Yes you can take any fighter and say if he did this and all taht, but Ray did it. Ray won the rematch and he won it when he was starting to land against Duran. He was not bolo punching him when Duran quit he was landing punches to the head and body And regardless of excuses. Talking about excuses Hearns or rather Emanuel always said Tommy had the leg massage and that made his legs weak against Hagler. As much as I love Tommy and Emanuel, I never accepted this. That was not Marvin's problem and Marvin won and got credit.

As for Carlos Palomino, he was not a great fighter, some say he was I don't. And Cuevas was 3 years from his title reign and this was after Ranzany.
Floyd doesn't fight many greats and I doubt he would have the guts to fight Duran if he has not fought Pacman, but if he fought him he would not fight on the ropes. He is smart enough to know he cannot beat Duran easily like that, although Benitez did well off the ropes against Duran. So it is plausible.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:40 AM   #192
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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It's not like Duran wouldn't be just fine on the outside with Floyd anyway. If he chose to force the fight to the inside, which he would (often and very successfully), he'd more or less beat the absolute **** out of Mayweather there. One's very good there, the other's the best ever there, and the kind of guy who wants to beat the **** out of you anyway. For the majority of the fight, Duran would be the guy who decides where the action takes place, but even setting that aside, the advantage Duran would hold up close is considerably greater than the advantage Floyd would have on the outside.

Against a good majority of the greats within his weight range, I'd either favor Floyd or at least make him 50/50 against them. Not Duran though. He's not beating peak Duran.
Floyd is too quick for Duran on the outside and with his punches. But he would have move and make Duran move forward and turn to exploit Duran's weakness, and then nail Duran when he is moving and hold him.

For people to say Duran could just control all these fighters, he does not have wins over great fighters. The greatest fighter he beat was Cuevas, who was 3 years and one divison away from his last title reign. If Duran had this list of greats fighters he dominated then people could say, ok he could do this, he did it against other fighters. The one guy he beat was Ray, who was in the second fight of his first title reign, then that guy Ray Leonard turned the tables on him. And when Ray wins a legit fight people say Duran was not in shape. Not fair to Ray. And the third fight is significant because Ray outboxed Duran again, and Duran was champion in 1989 regardless of anything else.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:45 AM   #193
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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Great points

I mean Leonard as at least equal or greater to Floyd in terms of reach at 74 inches, and it wasn't nearly enough to compensate for the footspeed Duran employs when countering his way onto the inside.

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Ray proved he was greater than Duran by the second fight and third, and beating Hearns Benitez and Hagler, who all beat Duran easily. Duran doesn't have wins over greats like Leonard does.

The excuse will be Duran was this little guy and old. Duran was 32,30 and 32 against those 3.. He fought until he was 50 in 2001. And Duran fought at 154 in 1978 before Leonard,Benitez or Hearns ever fought that high in weight. The facts are there, and when I say it people think I want to diminish Duran's reputation. It isn't about reputation, but when i hear people say the first fight means so much, I know that Ray turning it around so easily in the rematch and third fights and Benitez also outboxed him, that the first fight is an overrated win. Ray was not experienced then and fought Duran's fight , as he said he did and made a mistake.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:46 AM   #194
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

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They had a rematch and Duran quit because Leonard chose to use his feet. Shocking how a fighter can get old overnight.
It was not Duran getting old. He was 29 years old then. He fought another 45 or so times and 21 years. Duran could not really deal with Ray fighting so varied and complete. Ray turned it around by using psychology and physicality.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:47 AM   #195
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Default Re: The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

His best win Leonard.

He beat Sugar Ray Leonard.

He's better than Leonard.

You're going to have to admit this someday.
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