The Brawl in Montreal - who would defeat Duran on that night?

[KuRuPT]

I love how people say Leonard fought Duran's fight.. What a load of trash. Leonard foght MORE in his career like he did against Duran 1 than he EVER did like Duran 2. So how the **** did he fight Duran's fight? He fought HIS fight and that is EXACTLY what he said he was going to do. Both him and his trainer made it no secret they felt they were bigger.. stronger.. taller.. longer reach with more power. They made it clear they were going to take he center of the ring and take the smaller guy out. That is EXACTLY what SRL tried, only problem was, it didn't work because Duran is that great NOT because he fought Duran's fight.

[Hands of Iron]

Yeah, it didn't work because Leonard found him preposterously difficult to hit with any clean, hard punches. Duran's tough as nails, but he doesn't get hit a fraction as much as it appears. It was a lopsided schooling in my book, even with all of Leonard's speed and guile. Leonard was so shaken up after getting stunned from the left hook, Duran couldn't make a move or feint without drawing some type of reaction from him. He already had his soul by the 2nd round.

[Flea Man]

Ray looked for adjustments when shit was flyin'. Unlike in other fights (especially post-Montreal against Kalule and Hearns I) he never did against Duran first time round, and only really got much going when Duran slowed down.

Second round; Duran feints his way in and smacks Ray hard with the left hook. All downhill for 'Sugar' from there on in.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Ray looked for adjustments when shit was flyin'. Unlike in other fights (especially post-Montreal against Kalule and Hearns I) he never did against Duran first time round, and only really got much going when Duran slowed down.

Second round; Duran feints his way in and smacks Ray hard with the left hook. All downhill for 'Sugar' from there on in.

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Ray looked for adjustments when shit was flyin'. Unlike in other fights (especially post-Montreal against Kalule and Hearns I) he never did against Duran first time round, and only really got much going when Duran slowed down.

Second round; Duran feints his way in and smacks Ray hard with the left hook. All downhill for 'Sugar' from there on in.

Ray won the second and third fights. When you add that into any equation where a guy wins 2 out of 3 fights, and he won those fights easily you cannot say Duran or anyone who wins a first fight was the better fighter. Humberto Gonzales was knocked out in the first fight with Carbajal, then won the next two by decision. If you want to make a point that Ray somehow found a way to win against Hearns but not Duran. The credit has always been given that Ray pored it on and beat Hearns with the 13 round rally. Emanuel Steward said many times that between the 12th and 13th round Tommy breathed a deep breath and Emanuel knew it was over. That Tommy had no more energy. It was Hearns and Leonard who decided that fight. Yet in the rematch, it was Ray who fought a different style against Duran.

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by MAG1965

Ray won the second and third fights. When you add that into any equation where a guy wins 2 out of 3 fights, and he won those fights easily you cannot say Duran or anyone who wins a first fight was the better fighter. Humberto Gonzales was knocked out in the first fight with Carbajal, then won the next two by decision. If you want to make a point that Ray somehow found a way to win against Hearns but not Duran.

Willie Pep lost more than he won against Saddler and is considered better. Ditto Greb and Tunney. Hell Hearns couldn't do anything with Barkeley but clearly the Hit man is the greater fighter. I assume you rate Bowe above Holyfield since he won 2 of the three fights.

And the difference between the brawl in Montreal and the Leonard-Hearns fight is that Ray adjusted during the fight. He beat Hearns the first go around by ad******g mid fight, something he did not, perhaps could not do vs Duran.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

Willie Pep lost more than he won against Saddler and is considered better. Ditto Greb and Tunney. Hell Hearns couldn't do anything with Barkeley but clearly the Hit man is the greater fighter. I assume you rate Bowe above Holyfield since he won 2 of the three fights.

And the difference between the brawl in Montreal and the Leonard-Hearns fight is that Ray adjusted during the fight. He beat Hearns the first go around by ad******g mid fight, something he did not, perhaps could not do vs Duran.

Frank ******

[LittleRed]

At first I thought I had written something so terrible the internet could not handle it. then I remembered...

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

I'd love to see Robinson go toe-to-toe with him.

RL is too smart for that

[NoNeck]

Mayweather. Yeah, I said it.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by turbotime

RL is too smart for that

Meant Robearto(e). He'd make Robinson miss like hell. But not quite enough.

[PetethePrince]

What stylistic does Gavlin brings that makes him a favorite against Duran. I'm curious to here why. Gavlin wasn't languish on the inside. He liked that Bolo punch and wasn't shy about being scrappy despite being a very calculated boxer. Basilio fought Gavlin to a real tough fight. Gavlin did out-box him rather succinctly in the second half, though. If Gavlin falls in the way he did when Basilio clocked him with that hook & right uppercut he'll get put on his ass and Duran will punish worse when you get back up. I think Duran's workrate and in-fighting should have him prevail over Gavlin. However, Duran does have more trouble with out-fighting slick, boxer types than mover types. Interesting fight. I think the Montreal version would probably be too active, though.

Only Hearns & Robinson would be favorites. Ironically, I think Basilio would be an absolute dog-fight and I've thought him as an upset candidate against Duran before.

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

Willie Pep lost more than he won against Saddler and is considered better. Ditto Greb and Tunney. Hell Hearns couldn't do anything with Barkeley but clearly the Hit man is the greater fighter. I assume you rate Bowe above Holyfield since he won 2 of the three fights.

And the difference between the brawl in Montreal and the Leonard-Hearns fight is that Ray adjusted during the fight. He beat Hearns the first go around by ad******g mid fight, something he did not, perhaps could not do vs Duran.

Leonard added to his legend by proving it was not a fluke by beating Hearns,Hagler and Benitez. Duran lost to Hearns, Benitez,Hagler. That is why Barkley is not seen as great because he could not beat Duran like Hearns did and was stopped in one by Benn and lost to Nunn and Kalambay. Ray did not fluke punch Duran, he beat him easily the next two fights. The 1989 fight is significant because he beat Duran's style again. My comments were all over the place in this one. But I think you get my point..

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

Willie Pep lost more than he won against Saddler and is considered better. Ditto Greb and Tunney. Hell Hearns couldn't do anything with Barkeley but clearly the Hit man is the greater fighter. I assume you rate Bowe above Holyfield since he won 2 of the three fights.

And the difference between the brawl in Montreal and the Leonard-Hearns fight is that Ray adjusted during the fight. He beat Hearns the first go around by ad******g mid fight, something he did not, perhaps could not do vs Duran.

Well if you bring up Evander and Bowe, I rate Evander over Bowe because Evander beat Tyson,Douglas,Qawi,Moorer, Foreman. etc etc etc. I rate Leonard over Duran because Ray beat Duran,Hearns,Hagler Benitez and Duran did not.

[Vince Voltage]

George Foreman. Duran was made for him.