I wish someone had of made a documentary on the early days of Chuck Liddell.

[Big Red]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Yeah no doubt most guys now wouldn't want to scrap in unsanctioned, unregulated, barely legal, "no-holds-barred" events basically for free. And why would they?

But other guys in the modern era - Nick Diaz, Maldonado, shit, even fucking Roy Nelson, in all likelihood - they don't give a shit. They'll fight anybody, they love the fight. BJ Penn would have fought in those old tournaments. Some guys just grow up fighting on the streets, they're fighting their whole lives and that's what they want to do.

Even someone who is perceived as somewhat of a pampered, entitled guy - Jon Jones - he demonstrated how tough he is against Belfort when he absolutely refused to tap even as his elbow was hyperextended. He bit down and gritted it out - he preferred to literally have his arm snapped rather than lose the fight. That's a real fighter no matter how you slice it. Would he have wanted to commit himself to such a fringe - and frankly, stupid - career path if he was around back in the day? Probably not - he had other, better options. Does that mean he's any less tough or has less love of the fight? Nope.

Saying that the likes of Liddell and Rampage are any tougher or more of a "real" fighter than Diaz or Maldonado simply because Chuck and Rampage came up in an era where the sport was underground is just ridiculous IMO. It's applying a standard that none of the modern guys can ever live up to, because none of them were ever in that situation where the "sport" was an underground irrelevancy.

Yeah, the guys now days are very tough people also. And I am impressed with these guys they are amazing fighters. I am a fan of the fighters now.

Back in the day I was not really into mma. I wish now that I had of followed it more closely since its infancy. I remember when the ultimite fighter tournements came out and I rented them and watched them. It was cool and reminded me of the movie blood sport. And I now wish that someone had the foresight to make documentarys of these fighters that fought for next to nothing with no rules and for no apparent reason . I think they were crazy and I think documentaries about crazy people are always the most interesting. Now its to late because mma fighting makes sense.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Big Red

Yeah, the guys now days are very tough people also. And I am impressed with these guys they are amazing fighters. I am a fan of the fighters now.

Back in the day I was not really into mma. I wish now that I had of followed it more closely since its infancy. I remember when the ultimite fighter tournements came out and I rented them and watched them. It was cool and reminded me of the movie blood sport. And I now wish that someone had the foresight to make documentarys of these fighters that fought for next to nothing with no rules and for no apparent reason . I think they were crazy and I think documentaries about crazy people are always the most interesting. Now its to late because mma fighting makes sense.

I'd like to watch a good doco about them too. And you gotta give respect to the pioneers.

But we can't pretend they were some unique breed of super, pure fighter that somehow doesn't exist 20 years later.

I mean, Nick Diaz literally pisses away a multi-million dollar payday purely because he wants to smoke bowls. He's not in it to get rich, he's in it to fight. He hates the 10 point scoring system, he just wants to get locked in a cage with another dude and fight until one of them can't fight any more. He would have been happy living on couches, not going to press conferences, and fighting with less restrictive rules.

And it's not like he's the only one of those guys. He's just one of the most obvious examples.

It was a different time then, and we can't directly compare. Most of the old guys would be shit out of luck in the modern era, because they weren't professional enough. They were getting drunk, eating shitty food and generally not living like high-level athletes. Different times breed different mindsets.

Many guys back then would have been great in todays era but never competed in unsanctioned shows because frankly, it was a stupid career choice. And many guys in today's era would have been a more natural fit in the old-style events. To pretend like it's any other way is ridiculous IMO.

[Big Red]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

I'd like to watch a good doco about them too. And you gotta give respect to the pioneers.

But we can't pretend they were some unique breed of super, pure fighter that somehow doesn't exist 20 years later.

The situation was uniqie so I think the fighters were also. You have to admit that there is something special about someone who is willing to get beaten to a pulp when there is no money in it and no promise of any money. These guys could have gotten in easy street fights instead, but they wanted to fight the best for nothing at all.

I mean, Nick Diaz literally pisses away a multi-million dollar payday purely because he wants to smoke bowls. He's not in it to get rich, he's in it to fight. He hates the 10 point scoring system, he just wants to get locked in a cage with another dude and fight until one of them can't fight any more. He would have been happy living on couches, not going to press conferences, and fighting with less restrictive rules.

And it's not like he's the only one of those guys. He's just one of the most obvious examples.

It was a different time then, and we can't directly compare. Most of the old guys would be shit out of luck in the modern era, because they weren't professional enough. They were getting drunk, eating shitty food and generally not living like high-level athletes. Different times breed different mindsets.

Many guys back then would have been great in todays era but never competed in unsanctioned shows because frankly, it was a stupid career choice. And many guys in today's era would have been a more natural fit in the old-style events. To pretend like it's any other way is ridiculous IMO.

Yeah, the sport has evolved most guys are more well rounded now. Maybe Diaz is the kind of guy who would have done all he has done if there was no money in it, but I don't know.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Big Red

Yeah, the sport has evolved most guys are more well rounded now. Maybe Diaz is the kind of guy who would have done all he has done if there was no money in it, but I don't know.

Exactly, we don't know because it isn't the same anymore. But we can't just write off that old-school mentality like it doesn't exist anymore.

I mean, look at all those guys who are fighting in shithole local shows in the middle of nowhere for $200. No sponsorship, no realistic hope of getting anywhere, no chance of fame and success. No money to see a doctor for their post-fight injuries. Nothing but fighting. But they fight because they love it, and they'd rather be fighting than working on the end of a shovel. Those guys are still around, plenty of them. It's just that, by and large, they are no longer good enough to compete at the top level of the sport because it's been cleaned up and the serious professional athletes have taken over.

[Big Red]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Exactly, we don't know because it isn't the same anymore. But we can't just write off that old-school mentality like it doesn't exist anymore.

I mean, look at all those guys who are fighting in shithole local shows in the middle of nowhere for $200. No sponsorship, no realistic hope of getting anywhere, no chance of fame and success. No money to see a doctor for their post-fight injuries. Nothing but fighting. But they fight because they love it, and they'd rather be fighting than working on the end of a shovel. Those guys are still around, plenty of them. It's just that, by and large, they are no longer good enough to compete at the top level of the sport because it's been cleaned up and the serious professional athletes have taken over.

Your right that there are still fighters with no hope fighting in leagues that don't pay to much money at all. I thought it was to late for a good documentary on that type of person, but I was wrong. There are still fighters that don't make money and know they can't make good money, but still do it.