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Old 06-26-2012, 05:52 AM   #1
Haggis McJackass
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Default Just watched PRIDE 33 for the first time......

Commentary on PRIDE 33 is on post #63.









1) Fedor - Cro Cop was a good fight. Bit disappointed with how one-sided it was though. Little underwhelmed by Cro Cop's performance. His cardio didn't seem that great.

2) Commentary team is slightly better than the UFC. Bas is good, the other guy is alright if a little bland. Neither of them provided as much in-depth analysis of the action as Rogan does. The main PRIDE guy is definately better than Goldie though.

3) Tournament formats where guys fight twice in one night can **** off.

4) Jon Jones beats Prime Shogun more times than not.

5) More lay and pray than PRIDE's reputation would suggest. Much more.

6) The card was a good, enjoyable event all in all.

7) Funny Japanese-style casual racism in the pre-fight hype - "Russia is known as a cold, dark place where things are simple."


Last edited by Haggis McJackass; 10-24-2012 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:04 AM   #2
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
1) Fedor - Cro Cop was a good fight. Bit disappointed with how one-sided it was though. Little underwhelmed by Cro Cop's performance. His cardio didn't seem that great.

2) Commentary team is slightly better than the UFC. Bas is good, the other guy is alright if a little bland. Neither of them provided as much in-depth analysis of the action as Rogan does. The main PRIDE guy is definately better than Goldie though.

3) Tournament formats where guys fight twice in one night can **** off.

4) Jon Jones beats Prime Shogun more times than not.

5) More lay and pray than PRIDE's reputation would suggest. Much more.

6) The card was a good, enjoyable event all in all.

7) Funny Japanese-style casual racism in the pre-fight hype - "Russia is known as a cold, dark place where things are simple."


very negative comments on a good event. maybe you should watch something else instead.
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:26 AM   #3
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

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Originally Posted by yaca you View Post
very negative comments on a good event. maybe you should watch something else instead.


1) I said that Fedor-Cro Cop was good. I'm not going to call it one of the best fights I've ever seen, because it was pretty one-sided and Cro Cop either gassed out or went into a shell for fairly large parts of it. Still, it was a good scrap.

2) Personally I'm not a fan of one-night tournaments, because I don't like that one semi-finalist can have a hard-fought decision win, the other gets a 20 second KO, and they have to fight each other an hour later. It's not a level playing field. I can appreciate that some people enjoy the excitement of it, but personally I'd rather have the final held when both fighters can come in fully rested and prepared, with fight plans devised for an opponent known weeks in advance.

3) Though I have watched PRIDE fights before, this was my first full event that I've sat down and watched. And since I've seen so many complaints about "UFC lay and pray" and lots of comments about how exciting PRIDE fights were by comparison with their ref standups and yellow cards and such, it surprised me the amount of lay and pray that went on.

4) I said that the card was a good, enjoyable event. Which it was. I just didn't find it to be "OMG this is the greatest thing ever in sports" type good. But I would certainly have considered the PPV to be money well spent. How much enthusiasm do you want me to display, exactly? What do you want me to do, get a Final Conflict tattoo?

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Old 06-26-2012, 06:42 AM   #4
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post


1) I said that Fedor-Cro Cop was good. I'm not going to call it one of the best fights I've ever seen, because it was pretty one-sided and Cro Cop either gassed out or went into a shell for fairly large parts of it. Still, it was a good scrap.

2) Personally I'm not a fan of one-night tournaments, because I don't like that one semi-finalist can have a hard-fought decision win, the other gets a 20 second KO, and they have to fight each other an hour later. It's not a level playing field. I can appreciate that some people like the excitement of it, but personally I'd rather have the final held when both fighters can come in fully rested and prepared, with fight plans devised for an opponent known weeks in advance.

3) Though I have watched PRIDE fights before, this was my first full event that I've sat down and watched. And since I've seen so many complaints about "UFC lay and pray" and lots of comments about how exciting PRIDE fights were by comparison with their ref standups and yellow cards and such, it surprised me the amount of lay and pray that went on.

4) I said that the card was a good, enjoyable event. Which it was. I just didn't find it to be "OMG this is the greatest thing ever in sports" type good. But I would certainly have considered the PPV to be money well spent. How much enthusiasm do you want me to display, exactly? What do you want me to do, get a Final Conflict tattoo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
1)Fedor - Cro Cop was a good fight. Bit disappointed with how one-sided it was though. Little underwhelmed by Cro Cop's performance. His cardio didn't seem that great.

2) Commentary team is slightly better than the UFC. Bas is good, the other guy is alright if a little bland. Neither of them provided as much in-depth analysis of the action as Rogan does. The main PRIDE guy is definately better than Goldie though.

3) Tournament formats where guys fight twice in one night can **** off.

4) Jon Jones beats Prime Shogun more times than not.

5) More lay and pray than PRIDE's reputation would suggest. Much more.

6) The card was a good, enjoyable event all in all.

7) Funny Japanese-style casual racism in the pre-fight hype - "Russia is known as a cold, dark place where things are simple."

negative is all the yellow which is most of the post( blue is positive) and #7 is neutral?

you say it was good but then give reasons you didnt like it. you dont need to love every PRIDE event but why make a thread telling everyone how you were disappointed in a card generally seen as good. you did a lot of whining in you OP is all Im sayin.

Whats your point? Cro-cop has bad cardio cause both fighters were tired. this was a gruelling fight mostly because of the pressure Fedor brought.

Last edited by yaca you; 06-26-2012 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:01 AM   #5
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

UFC need to take the cage and sell it for scrap metal
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

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Originally Posted by yaca you View Post
negative is all the yellow which is most of the post( blue is positive) and #7 is neutral?

you say it was good but then give reasons you didnt like it. you dont need to love every PRIDE event but why make a thread telling everyone how you were disappointed in a card generally seen as good. you did a lot of whining in you OP is all Im sayin.

Whats your point? Cro-cop has bad cardio cause both fighters were tired it was a gruelling fight mostly because of the pressure Fedor brought.
I think it's a pretty even blend of positive and negative comments. The positive comments are bigger than the negative ones too - eg "Fedor-Cro Cop was a good fight" versus "Cro-Cop's cardio didn't seem that great." Or "PRIDE main commentator is a little bland" versus "Commentary team is slightly better than the UFC."

But then, shouldn't I have a blend of positive and negative comments anyway? Would I be a better commentator if I went 100% negative or 100% positive?

Obviously on here there are two main camps. "PRIDE was the Golden Era of MMA", versus "Zuffa-era UFC is the golden age."

I'm always hearing about how much better the PRIDE cards were. How much more action-packed and exciting the fights were. How the cards were stacked with great matchups. How all the fighters were 10x better than the guys with the same names who showed up in the UFC six months later.

And I know that Final Conflict 2005 is rated as one of the best events, so I watched it.

I was looking forward to seeing Vovchanchyn, because I've only ever seen clips of him and I know his reputation as a striker. But pretty much his entire fight was spent on the ground.

And the same with Tank Abbott. I wanted and expected to see an old Tank get KOed in a standup brawl. Instead the entire fight took place on the ground with nothing much happening.

I'm not talking shit on the card. It was good. How much can you really bitch about a card with Fedor, Cro Cop, Wanderlei, Overeem, Vovchanchyn AND Shogun? I enjoyed it and I would have felt the PPV money was well spent. Is that not enough enthusiasm?

It's just that the format doesn't appeal to me so much. I prefer a cage to a ring, as I dislike interrupting the action to relocate the fighters to the centre of the ring. Also I don't like seeing fighters get tangled up in the ropes and attacked with kicks and stomps. And I can appreciate that tournaments are exciting, but to me it smacks of a pro-wrestling gimmick rather than a legitimate sporting event. I like an important fight to have both fighters well-rested and prepared. Honestly, I don't consider any of this as fanboyish hating.

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Old 06-26-2012, 07:30 AM   #7
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

Crocop put up one of the classic fights against one of the greatest in his prime. Fedor rarely if ever got backed up during his reign. add to that Cro Cop shown his whole career that he couldn't fight nearly as effective when getting pushed back. Best part of Cro Cop game in that fight was his ability to avoid take downs or outright defend heavy attacks from guard position. Fedor was frustrated in not being able to finish Cro Cop, I believe Fedor thought he was going to win the fight there but couldn't seal the deal.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

Imagine the hype you would have for Final conflict 2005 if you where not watching a repeat but watching it live. Which UFC events do you think beat it? I think you should watch a bit more Pride, I'm sure it will win you over and you will see just how much better a ring is than a cage. On a side note, Sonnen was born in the wrong era. He would have fit right in at Pride.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:12 AM   #9
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
I think it's a pretty even blend of positive and negative comments. The positive comments are bigger than the negative ones too - eg "Fedor-Cro Cop was a good fight" versus "Cro-Cop's cardio didn't seem that great." Or "PRIDE main commentator is a little bland" versus "Commentary team is slightly better than the UFC."

But then, shouldn't I have a blend of positive and negative comments anyway? Would I be a better commentator if I went 100% negative or 100% positive?

Obviously on here there are two main camps. "PRIDE was the Golden Era of MMA", versus "Zuffa-era UFC is the golden age."

I'm always hearing about how much better the PRIDE cards were. How much more action-packed and exciting the fights were. How the cards were stacked with great matchups. How all the fighters were 10x better than the guys with the same names who showed up in the UFC six months later.

And I know that Final Conflict 2005 is rated as one of the best events, so I watched it.

I was looking forward to seeing Vovchanchyn, because I've only ever seen clips of him and I know his reputation as a striker. But pretty much his entire fight was spent on the ground.

And the same with Tank Abbott. I wanted and expected to see an old Tank get KOed in a standup brawl. Instead the entire fight took place on the ground with nothing much happening.

I'm not talking shit on the card. It was good. How much can you really bitch about a card with Fedor, Cro Cop, Wanderlei, Overeem, Vovchanchyn AND Shogun? I enjoyed it and I would have felt the PPV money was well spent. Is that not enough enthusiasm?

It's just that the format doesn't appeal to me so much. I prefer a cage to a ring, as I dislike interrupting the action to relocate the fighters to the centre of the ring. Also I don't like seeing fighters get tangled up in the ropes and attacked with kicks and stomps. And I can appreciate that tournaments are exciting, but to me it smacks of a pro-wrestling gimmick rather than a legitimate sporting event. I like an important fight to have both fighters well-rested and prepared. Honestly, I don't consider any of this as fanboyish hating.

I would say PRIDE's demise ended the golden era of MMA because we used to have PRIDE and the UFC. I liked both orgs, preferred PRIDE but do I think it was perfect? no. Im not a big fan of stomps but I also dont like elbows on a grounded opponent. MMA was a bit different in this era their were lots of orgs to watch and a lot of fighters that excelled in different rulesets.

When a MMA org dies, thats a piece of MMA that is lost. Especially one as big as PRIDE FC.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:50 AM   #10
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

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Originally Posted by yaca you View Post
I would say PRIDE's demise ended the golden era of MMA because we used to have PRIDE and the UFC. I liked both orgs, preferred PRIDE but do I think it was perfect? no. Im not a big fan of stomps but I also dont like elbows on a grounded opponent. MMA was a bit different in this era their were lots of orgs to watch and a lot of fighters that excelled in different rulesets.

When a MMA org dies, thats a piece of MMA that is lost. Especially one as big as PRIDE FC.
Agree with every word, especially the bold

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Old 06-26-2012, 08:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

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Originally Posted by yaca you View Post
I would say PRIDE's demise ended the golden era of MMA because we used to have PRIDE and the UFC. I liked both orgs, preferred PRIDE but do I think it was perfect? no. Im not a big fan of stomps but I also dont like elbows on a grounded opponent. MMA was a bit different in this era their were lots of orgs to watch and a lot of fighters that excelled in different rulesets.

When a MMA org dies, thats a piece of MMA that is lost. Especially one as big as PRIDE FC.
That is why I support Bellator and ONE FC
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:59 AM   #12
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

Have you watched any ufc events from 7-8 years ago before comparing lay and pray from an 7 year old pride event?
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:16 AM   #13
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

Quote:
Originally Posted by yaca you View Post
I would say PRIDE's demise ended the golden era of MMA because we used to have PRIDE and the UFC. I liked both orgs, preferred PRIDE but do I think it was perfect? no. Im not a big fan of stomps but I also dont like elbows on a grounded opponent. MMA was a bit different in this era their were lots of orgs to watch and a lot of fighters that excelled in different rulesets.

When a MMA org dies, thats a piece of MMA that is lost. Especially one as big as PRIDE FC.


The bolded is exactly how I feel.

Personally, I like everyone fighting in one organization, so long as all the top guys fight each other. Which, by and large, they do.

And for me, PRIDE is too much of an event thing, rather than a legit sport. Different strokes for different folks. I can certainly appreciate a lot of the fights and the staging in PRIDE, but I don't see it as the greatest thing ever in MMA. It has its pro points, but I can't just overlook the flaws.

And I don't understand how the quality of the fighters was apparently so much higher. Seems to me that the very best PRIDE guys would be top level in the modern UFC, and the likes of Jones and JDS would have been kicking everyone's ass in PRIDE as well.

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Old 06-26-2012, 09:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

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Originally Posted by thejokerswild View Post
Crocop put up one of the classic fights against one of the greatest in his prime. Fedor rarely if ever got backed up during his reign. add to that Cro Cop shown his whole career that he couldn't fight nearly as effective when getting pushed back. Best part of Cro Cop game in that fight was his ability to avoid take downs or outright defend heavy attacks from guard position. Fedor was frustrated in not being able to finish Cro Cop, I believe Fedor thought he was going to win the fight there but couldn't seal the deal.
Yeah, it was a good fight. I'm not hating.

But I don't see Cro-Cop just walking through the likes of JDS or Cain. The way the PRIDE heavyweight holy trinity is talked about, it's like nobody in an octagon can ever compete with them. Put today's JDS in against Fedor on that Final Conflict card, and that's a fight for the ages as well. Same thing if you throw in Bones against Final Conflict Wandy.

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Old 06-26-2012, 09:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: Just watched PRIDE Final Conflict 2005 for the first time......

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Imagine the hype you would have for Final conflict 2005 if you where not watching a repeat but watching it live.
Oh, there's no argument there.

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Originally Posted by benebox View Post
Which UFC events do you think beat it?
Well, objectively speaking there's no reason why Junior vs Cain wasn't on the same level.

And Silva-Sonnen will be electric. Sure it's not the two best heavyweights in the world fighting for the title. But it is the UFC's #1 ATG, and a lot of MMA fans are very heavily invested in the result of the fight. Sonnen by UD would cause an uproar in the MMA world, and would be a huge fight in the sport's history.

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I think you should watch a bit more Pride, I'm sure it will win you over and you will see just how much better a ring is than a cage.
I don't think so. A ring seems a natural environment for a boxing or kickboxing match, not so for fights with takedowns and grappling involved.

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On a side note, Sonnen was born in the wrong era. He would have fit right in at Pride.
Maybe. He'd probably fight wearing tights and a cape.

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