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Old 02-01-2008, 03:41 PM   #16
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16[QUOTE
]Styles makes fights. Floyd is just a bad style match up for Duran. Too much movement, too much handspeed , and overall boxing ability.
Yeah, that really troubled Castillo, who had neither the speed, power, nor the ferocity of Duran. Not to mention was inferior in every single other category, and still arguably beat Floyd.

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Duran never did match well against pure boxers that knows how to keep thier distance and stay on the outside.
Floyd doesn't do that, Floyd goes into a shell or hangs on the ropes against relentless pressure, which is why he often loses rounds, unlike Whitaker, who fought off the backfoot. Duran would be pressuring and hitting Floyd all day, to whatever he could.

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I see Floyd staying far on the outside (the way he did with Corales) avoiding exchanges and boxing smart. Competitive fight no doubt and Duran has his moments, but Mayweather prevails by close descision.
Here's the difference, Corrales was following Floyd. Corrales is an extremely limited, but tough, fighter. Floyd was tailor-made to beat Corrales. Someone like Castillo, who could cut off the ring, but didn't have the power of Corrales, did infinitely better. Duran would crowd Floyd the whole fight. Against a style like that you literally have to be running like Bizarro was to avoid punishment for long. Floyd doesn't do that. As said, he showed good movement against an extremely limited Corrales, but not someone good at cutting off the ring, like Castillo.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16
Floyd Mayweather and Henry Armstrong would be a great fight and Amstrong has the perfect style to get it done but the question is would he be able to keep up that pressure for an entire fight? Tough one to call IMO. Armstrong has to be in Mayweather chest and stay there for the entire fight, and Mayweather has to keep his distance, counter effectivley and stay off of the ropes.
Duran was faster and more versatile than Armstrong. In short, he was better, in head to head terms.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Duran was faster and more versatile than Armstrong. In short, he was better, in head to head terms.
You have so many people that you would favour or have 50/50 against mayweather, yet you would probably pick whitaker to beat everybody at 135/140, thats what i call nuthugging.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by brownpimp88
You have so many people that you would favour or have 50/50 against mayweather, yet you would probably pick whitaker to beat everybody at 135/140, thats what i call nuthugging.
Why is that nuthugging? Mayweather is not as good as Whitaker, at all. I am most certainly not the only one that will tell you that.

You've said yourself that you favor Whitaker over all at 135, so don't try to BS now just to prove a tired point. At 140, how much better does it get? Not at all IMO.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:55 PM   #20
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Why is that nuthugging? Mayweather is not as good as Whitaker, at all. I am most certainly not the only one that will tell you that.

You've said yourself that you favor Whitaker over all at 135, so don't try to BS now just to prove a tired point. At 140, how much better does it get? Not at all IMO.
no thats not what i said you dipshit, i said he would most likely outpoint duran at 135, i never said hes the solid favourite against every atg lightweight and junior welterweight in the hidotry of the sport.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Totally disagree with your assessment here. Whenever someone has "taken it" to Mayweather he has either run away and looked average (e.g. the Jose Luis Castillo fights) or stood his ground and tried to let the other man tire out before coming on late (Chavez, Hatton).

If he is looking average running away from lead-foot Castillo how bad will he look with Duran on his trail?

He was losing rounds to no defense, no punch guys like Chavez and Hatton by trying to stand his ground, what happens when he meets a guy that punches much harder and can actually defend himself? I have an idea: he gets outworked and loses lopsidedly on points.
Run away? He has always took time to adjust to his opponents style, thats why he always comes on late. You are getting confused. Chavez, Hatton, and Castillio used the volume in your chest punching style so they gave Floyd trouble. When has Duran ever been a non stop volume puncher? He gives his opponents room to box and thats not something that you want to do against Mayweather, you need to be in face all night putting pressure on him. I see Floyd using the ring, staying of the ropes, picking his spots, countering effectivley and winning a hard fought decision. Duran might try to pressure Mayweather and will probably have success but volume punching is out of his character so i see him coming out of his game plan. Also, Chavez. Hatton, and Castillio are multiple world champions and some of the best of this era, no shame in losing a few early rounds to them if you ask me.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:59 PM   #22
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by brownpimp88
no thats not what i said you dipshit, i said he would most likely outpoint duran at 135, i never said hes the solid favourite against every atg lightweight and junior welterweight in the hidotry of the sport.
You have said before that 135 is Whitaker's "unbeatable weight". You've said you favor him over Duran, Benny Leonard, etc. Who do you favor over him at LW then?

I never said you said the same about 140, did I? I said "At 140, how much better does it get?". You have yet to give me an answer. You've also said that Whitaker handily beats all come forward brawlers, and show your lack of analytical skills by placing Duran in that group. Either way, if that's the way you think, I trust you won't favor Pryor at 140. So please, give me your picks of fighters you favor over him at the two weights.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:00 PM   #23
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16
Run away? He has always took time to adjust to his opponents style, thats why he always comes on late. You are getting confused. Chavez, Hatton, and Castillio used the volume in your chest punching style so they gave Floyd trouble. When has Duran ever been a non stop volume puncher? He gives his opponents room to box and thats not something that you want to do against Mayweather, you need to be in face all night putting pressure on him. I see Floyd using the ring, staying of the ropes, picking his spots, countering effectivley and winning a hard fought decision. Duran might try to pressure Mayweather and will probably have success but volume punching is out of his character so i see him coming out of his game plan. Also, Chavez. Hatton, and Castillio are multiple world champions and some of the best of this era, no shame in losing a few early rounds to them if you ask me.
Uh, Buchanan, Leonard, Dejesus, many LW fights.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:01 PM   #24
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Yeah, that really troubled Castillo, who had neither the speed, power, nor the ferocity of Duran. Not to mention was inferior in every single other category, and still arguably beat Floyd.

Floyd doesn't do that, Floyd goes into a shell or hangs on the ropes against relentless pressure, which is why he often loses rounds, unlike Whitaker, who fought off the backfoot. Duran would be pressuring and hitting Floyd all day, to whatever he could.

Here's the difference, Corrales was following Floyd. Corrales is an extremely limited, but tough, fighter. Floyd was tailor-made to beat Corrales. Someone like Castillo, who could cut off the ring, but didn't have the power of Corrales, did infinitely better. Duran would crowd Floyd the whole fight. Against a style like that you literally have to be running like Bizarro was to avoid punishment for long. Floyd doesn't do that. As said, he showed good movement against an extremely limited Corrales, but not someone good at cutting off the ring, like Castillo.
Good points, hard to disgaree with that, this fight could go either way.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:08 PM   #25
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
You have said before that 135 is Whitaker's "unbeatable weight". You've said you favor him over Duran, Benny Leonard, etc. Who do you favor over him at LW then?

I never said you said the same about 140, did I? I said "At 140, how much better does it get?". You have yet to give me an answer. You've also said that Whitaker handily beats all come forward brawlers, and show your lack of analytical skills by placing Duran in that group. Either way, if that's the way you think, I trust you won't favor Pryor at 140. So please, give me your picks of fighters you favor over him at the two weights.
aaron pyror is not a come forward brawler like the people whitaker always fought, he has very good boxing skills and hes got much better footwork and hanspeed than the likes of vasquez, paez, ramirez, pineda,. It would have been a 50/50 fight in my opinion. Pryor has more power than chavez does and hes got far more boxing skills than chavez does, can he beat whitaker, absolutely.

At 140 i pick benitez to beat him and i have always stood by this. Why not, hes the naturally bigger man, hes got amazing reflexes, better power and hell mcgirt won 5 rounds off whitaker in thier first fight and benitez is a vastly superior fighter.

Henry Armstrong is the guy that i would make a 50/50 fight with whitaker at 135. Why you ask, because his non stop volume punching style is bad against whitakers style, whitaker would most likely backpeddle and hit his bike the entire fight.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Uh, Buchanan, Leonard, Dejesus, many LW fights.

None of those fighters are as fast as Mayweather nor to they have his pure boxing ability. Duran only won the first fight with Leonard because he pulled him into a brawl. When have ever seen Mayweather brawl? He keeps his composure and sticks to his gameplan. You seen what happened in the second fight with Leonard and the Wlifred Benitez fights. He can not handle pure boxers that will not fight his fight.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:11 PM   #27
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by Amsterdam
That fought at 135-147 that would smoke Floyd Joy Boy at his best at these weights.

I'll add them as they are listed and discussed.
I can honestly say that I would not care to put much money down against him beating anybody at these weights. Coming from the Janitor this is high praise.

I will give you one to make the discusion interesting.

I predict that Battling Nelson would beat him over 45 rounds in his own era at lightweight.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:12 PM   #28
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by brownpimp88
aaron pyror is not a come forward brawler like the people whitaker always fought, he has very good boxing skills and hes got much better footwork and hanspeed than the likes of vasquez, paez, ramirez, pineda,. It would have been a 50/50 fight in my opinion. Pryor has more power than chavez does and hes got far more boxing skills than chavez does, can he beat whitaker, absolutely.

At 140 i pick benitez to beat him and i have always stood by this. Why not, hes the naturally bigger man, hes got amazing reflexes, better power and hell mcgirt won 5 rounds off whitaker in thier first fight and benitez is a vastly superior fighter.

Henry Armstrong is the guy that i would make a 50/50 fight with whitaker at 135. Why you ask, because his non stop volume punching style is bad against whitakers style, whitaker would most likely backpeddle and hit his bike the entire fight.
So Armstrong is not a come forward brawler but the immensely more versatile Duran is? Makes sense.

I may pick Benitez at 147, but not at 140. Too young for one, and Whitaker was simply fantastic there. At 147, he was at his peak, and naturally bigger than Pea, who was not quite as good at the higher weights as the lower. Pea at 140, Benitez at 147.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:15 PM   #29
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16
None of those fighters are as fast as Mayweather nor to they have his pure boxing ability. Duran only won the first fight with Leonard because he pulled him into a brawl. When have ever seen Mayweather brawl? He keeps his composure and sticks to his gameplan. You seen what happened in the second fight with Leonard and the Wlifred Benitez fights. He can not handle pure boxers that will not fight his fight.
First of all, let's stop pretending he was in his prime for the Benitez fight at 154. We're talking the beast at 135. Also comes the fact that Floyd, as said, opts to go into a shell and fight off the ropes, looking to counter(or else he just straight runs) when faced with constant pressure. I will tell you this, Floyd looks good at times brawling with someone like Hatton, Corley, N'Dou, etc, but he better not try that shit with Duran. I think Floyd is smart enough to know this, too.

Floyd does not work well off the backfoot like Whitaker, which is why he can't handle pressure fighters as effectively. Floyd looks his worst against them, they were Whitaker's speciality.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
So Armstrong is not a come forward brawler but the immensely more versatile Duran is? Makes sense.

I may pick Benitez at 147, but not at 140. Too young for one, and Whitaker was simply fantastic there. At 147, he was at his peak, and naturally bigger than Pea, who was not quite as good at the higher weights as the lower. Pea at 140, Benitez at 147.
im sure bentiez could have given pineda a boxing lesson at 140, but hey he beat the great cervantes at that weight, it impresses me more.

Aaron pryor would have been whitakers boogeyman, a swarmer that has great boxing skills, thats the last thing whitaker wants to fight. Not to mention handspeed and footwork much better than that of chavez. I can just imagine whitaker running away like a bitch the entire fight.
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