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Old 02-01-2008, 04:23 PM   #31
Sweet Pea
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by brownpimp88[QUOTE
]im sure bentiez could have given pineda a boxing lesson at 140, but hey he beat the great cervantes at that weight, it impresses me more.
The fight with Pineda was not close, on any level. The Cervantes fight was. A SD if I recall correctly.

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Aaron pryor would have been whitakers boogeyman, a swarmer that has great boxing skills, thats the last thing whitaker wants to fight. Not to mention handspeed and footwork much better than that of chavez. I can just imagine whitaker running away like a bitch the entire fight.
First of all, where do you come up with this mess about Pryor being a great boxer? He was extremely unorthodox, could slip punches and fire back at the same time, and was more accurate than his style would suggest, but against a boxer off the backfoot, you think that style works effectively? Against the stationary Arguello, sure, but not against Pea. What was so great about Pryor's footwork? His balance sucked, which lead to a lot of his KD's, whereas Chavez was much more balanced. I'd take Pryor over Chavez though.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:25 PM   #32
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Floyd doesn't do that, Floyd goes into a shell or hangs on the ropes against relentless pressure, which is why he often loses rounds, unlike Whitaker, who fought off the backfoot. Duran would be pressuring and hitting Floyd all day, to whatever he could.
Floyd counters effectivly off the ropes, its a classic Mayweather style. His father even did it when he was a pro. He rolls his shoulder and brings the right hands up top as his opponents is coming in. His counter uppercut and check left hook would come into play in this fight as Duran walks in. Look at what happened when he countered Oscar on the way in off the ropes, his legs buckled. Also, he lost rounds because he is ad******g to his opponents style. Just like the Judah fight, the Hatton fight, The De La Hoya fight, the Chavez fight, and many other big fights. He always comes on mid to late in fights when he has figured out his opponents style. Also, you think that Duran would be hitting Floyd all day? lol, thats laughable. Floyd is too good defensivley and simply too skilled to be hit at will against anyone. He rolls his shoulder and nuetralizes shots.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:27 PM   #33
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

[quote=Sweet Pea][quote=brownpimp88The fight with Pineda was not close, on any level. The Cervantes fight was. A SD if I recall correctly.

First of all, where do you come up with this mess about Pryor being a great boxer? He was extremely unorthodox, could slip punches and fire back at the same time, and was more accurate than his style would suggest, but against a boxer off the backfoot, you think that style works effectively? Against the stationary Arguello, sure, but not against Pea. What was so great about Pryor's footwork? His balance sucked, which lead to a lot of his KD's, whereas Chavez was much more balanced. I'd take Pryor over Chavez though.[/QUOTE]
it may have been a spilt decision in the judges eyes, but a clear win for benitez. Aagain we are comparing pineda to kid pambele

Pryor isnt a great boxer, but hes got very good boxing skills, compared to the guys whitaker fought that were pressure fighters and pernell really doesnt have the power to respect aaron, if whitaker wins the fight it would be by stinking up the joint and running on his bike, he wont engage with pryor like he did with chavez, if he did, hed get knocked the **** out.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16
Floyd counters effectivly off the ropes, its a classic Mayweather style. His father even did it when he was a pro. He rolls his shoulder and brings the right hands up top as his opponents is coming in. His counter uppercut and check left hook would come into play in this fight as Duran walks in. Look at what happened when he countered Oscar on the way in off the ropes, his legs buckled. Also, he lost rounds because he is ad******g to his opponents style. Just like the Judah fight, the Hatton fight, The De La Hoya fight, the Chavez fight, and many other big fights. He always comes on mid to late in fights when he has figured out his opponents style. Also, you think that Duran would be hitting Floyd all day? lol, thats laughable. Floyd is too good defensivley and simply too skilled to be hit at will against anyone. He rolls his shoulder and nuetralizes shots.
He would be hitting Floyd, though not exactly clean hits all fight. But, make no mistake, not just Duran's putput, but his variety in punches, would cause him to land clean often as well. Castillo was able to rough Floyd up and land clean shots inside because of it. Duran had so much more variety than Castillo.

Last edited by counter punc; 01-23-2007 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:33 PM   #35
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

[quote=brownpimp88]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
it may have been a spilt decision in the judges eyes, but a clear win for benitez. Aagain we are comparing pineda to kid pambele

Pryor isnt a great boxer, but hes got very good boxing skills, compared to the guys whitaker fought that were pressure fighters and pernell really doesnt have the power to respect aaron, if whitaker wins the fight it would be by stinking up the joint and running on his bike, he wont engage with pryor like he did with chavez, if he did, hed get knocked the **** out.
Yeah, he engaged with Trinidad when he was shot, at a higher weight, and facing a harder hitter, yet survived the distance, but he'd get KO's by Pryor in his prime. You're missing on all fronts today.

You don't win fights by running away, you win them by outboxing your opponent. I think Whitaker would fight a fight similar to how he fought Nelson or Ramirez in the first fight. Off the backfoot.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:35 PM   #36
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
First of all, let's stop pretending he was in his prime for the Benitez fight at 154. We're talking the beast at 135. Also comes the fact that Floyd, as said, opts to go into a shell and fight off the ropes, looking to counter(or else he just straight runs) when faced with constant pressure. I will tell you this, Floyd looks good at times brawling with someone like Hatton, Corley, N'Dou, etc, but he better not try that shit with Duran. I think Floyd is smart enough to know this, too.

Floyd does not work well off the backfoot like Whitaker, which is why he can't handle pressure fighters as effectively. Floyd looks his worst against them, they were Whitaker's speciality.
Again, he counters off the ropes. Since when have you seen Mayweather just go into a shell and let his opponents hit him? He would not brawl with Duran, he would box Duran and be defensive as he was against Corales, Especially since that fight was at lightweight. Mayweather had better power down there and would surely have enough to make Duran respect him. Duran would be getting countered by a hard puncher and would have to be on a constantly moving target for 15 rounds, tough task.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:54 PM   #37
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16
Again, he counters off the ropes. Since when have you seen Mayweather just go into a shell and let his opponents hit him? He would not brawl with Duran, he would box Duran and be defensive as he was against Corales, Especially since that fight was at lightweight. Mayweather had better power down there and would surely have enough to make Duran respect him. Duran would be getting countered by a hard puncher and would have to be on a constantly moving target for 15 rounds, tough task.
The Corrales fight was at 130.

Mayweather doesn't just let his opponents hit him, but against an inside fighter as immensely skilled as Duran(moreso than Floyd, so it's not like Floyd would be landing the cleaner, better blows off the ropes, like he was doing against Hoya) he would not be fighting as effectively. You underestimate Duran's infighting skills if you think he would be coming off second best at any stage when the fight is mid or close range.
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:10 PM   #38
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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You'd favor Floyd over Duran, but take Pep over Floyd? Let's just say I strongly disagree.
Fair enough but styles make fights, and we know the styles of Duran and Pep could not be more different.
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:17 PM   #39
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Fair enough but styles make fights, and we know the styles of Duran and Pep could not be more different.
Floyd is better head to head than Pep in my opinion, to go along with being bigger, stronger, and more powerful at 130. Duran has the perfect style to beat Floyd if you ask me, for all of the reasons outlined in my argument with Slicksouthpaw.
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:18 PM   #40
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
The Corrales fight was at 130.

Mayweather doesn't just let his opponents hit him, but against an inside fighter as immensely skilled as Duran(moreso than Floyd, so it's not like Floyd would be landing the cleaner, better blows off the ropes, like he was doing against Hoya) he would not be fighting as effectively. You underestimate Duran's infighting skills if you think he would be coming off second best at any stage when the fight is mid or close range.
This is why the fight would be close IMO. Durans pressure and body work, and Mayweather's boxing ability and ring generalship.
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Old 02-01-2008, 06:21 PM   #41
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Run away? He has always took time to adjust to his opponents style, thats why he always comes on late. You are getting confused. Chavez, Hatton, and Castillio used the volume in your chest punching style so they gave Floyd trouble. When has Duran ever been a non stop volume puncher? He gives his opponents room to box and thats not something that you want to do against Mayweather, you need to be in face all night putting pressure on him. I see Floyd using the ring, staying of the ropes, picking his spots, countering effectivley and winning a hard fought decision. Duran might try to pressure Mayweather and will probably have success but volume punching is out of his character so i see him coming out of his game plan. Also, Chavez. Hatton, and Castillio are multiple world champions and some of the best of this era, no shame in losing a few early rounds to them if you ask me.
Castillo was a non-stop volume puncher against Floyd? No, quite simply he wasn't. He applied educated pressure and threw punches with measure. He didn't throw and throw and throw like Chavez and Hatton.

If anything, Duran is busier than Castillo and there is no doubt whatsoever that he puts on more pressure than him.

As I've said before though, the key for Duran isn't his offense, for many have hit Mayweather before, Duran will do that as well, but the key will be that Mayweather will actually struggle to hit Duran in return, because Duran is immeasurably better defensively than either Castillo, Chavez or Hatton.

As such, and taking Duran's pressure and output into account I see Mayweather being outworked and outscored. When Mayweather 'adjusts', he'll find that Duran isn't there to take the punishment that the others Mayweather fought did. If you have any doubt about this see the defense on Duran in the Leonard fight, a faster, bigger hitter than Mayweather, who struggled to land anything clean on Duran the whole fight in Montreal.
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:49 PM   #42
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Castillo was a non-stop volume puncher against Floyd? No, quite simply he wasn't. He applied educated pressure and threw punches with measure. He didn't throw and throw and throw like Chavez and Hatton.

If anything, Duran is busier than Castillo and there is no doubt whatsoever that he puts on more pressure than him.

As I've said before though, the key for Duran isn't his offense, for many have hit Mayweather before, Duran will do that as well, but the key will be that Mayweather will actually struggle to hit Duran in return, because Duran is immeasurably better defensively than either Castillo, Chavez or Hatton.

As such, and taking Duran's pressure and output into account I see Mayweather being outworked and outscored. When Mayweather 'adjusts', he'll find that Duran isn't there to take the punishment that the others Mayweather fought did. If you have any doubt about this see the defense on Duran in the Leonard fight, a faster, bigger hitter than Mayweather, who struggled to land anything clean on Duran the whole fight in Montreal.

Mayweather is faster than Leonard is, he is also more accurate and the better tecnically sound pure boxer. Like i have said before, Duran won the first fight with Leonard because he dragged him into a brawl and made him fight his fight. Never did you see Duran out box Leonard. You witnessed what happened in the second and third fight. Also, do you really think that Duran beats Mayweather in a tactical battle? Please. Also Castillio brought smart pressure on Mayweather. He would go to the body and take advantages when Floyd would go on the ropes. (Floyds left hand was actually broke in that fight)
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:40 PM   #43
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16[QUOTE
]Mayweather is faster than Leonard is
At 147? Not at all true. Leonard was clearly faster at the weight. Floyd at 135 P4P vs Leonard at 147 speed-wise? Pretty close. Leonard always had faster combos, but overall I'd say Floyd was slightly quicker in terms of movement, though not in terms of handspeed.

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he is also more accurate and the better tecnically sound pure boxer
Virgill Hill was more technically sound than Roy Jones. Means not a damn thing.

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Like i have said before, Duran won the first fight with Leonard because he dragged him into a brawl and made him fight his fight. Never did you see Duran out box Leonard. You witnessed what happened in the second and third fight.
Duran was ancient in the 3rd fight, and any account other than a biased one will tell you that he was not at his best in the 2nd fight. He was very drained from making weight after balooning up to 200 pounds and back down to 147 in a span of a few months.

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Also, do you really think that Duran beats Mayweather in a tactical battle? Please.
Absolutely. Why not? How the hell do you find that hard to believe? Because Duran wasn't a pure boxer like Floyd means he wasn't tactical? Castillo arguably beat Floyd using his own tactics.

Quote:
Also Castillio brought smart pressure on Mayweather. He would go to the body and take advantages when Floyd would go on the ropes. (Floyds left hand was actually broke in that fight)
So Castillo could do it but not Duran? Duran's pressure would be far more aggressive and overwhelming, and he brings more power and overall craft than Castillo. On the inside, Duran outclasses Floyd.

Last edited by Dunky McCafferty; 01-23-2007 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 02-01-2008, 09:12 PM   #44
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

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Sweet Pea]Virgill Hill was more technically sound than Roy Jones. Means not a damn thing.
I said that Maywether was more technically sound than Ray Leonard was.


[/quote]
Quote:
Duran was ancient in the 3rd fight, and any account other than a biased one will tell you that he was not at his best in the 2nd fight. He was very drained from making weight after balooning up to 200 pounds and back down to 147 in a span of a few months.
[/quote]
It would have been the same result. Duran would never beat a Ray Leonard that sticks to his game plan and avoid slugging. You see what happened in the second fight.

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Absolutely. Why not? How the hell do you find that hard to believe? Because Duran wasn't a pure boxer like Floyd means he wasn't tactical? Castillo arguably beat Floyd using his own tactics.
You are insane if you think that Castillio out boxed Mayweather and Duran would out box Mayweater. Castillio won the fight when mayweather was against the ropes, he simply out worked Maweather. Mayweather would outclass Duran on the outside and pretty easily. Mayweather has too much weaponary for Duran on the outside. The lead right hand would be blinding and the counter check left hook would also come into play.


Quote:
So Castillo could do it but not Duran? Duran's pressure would be far more aggressive and overwhelming, and he brings more power and overall craft than Castillo. On the inside, Duran outclasses Floyd.
Two completley different fighters. You always seemed like you didn't know that syles makes fights. Duran is not even a pressure fighter and since when have known him to hunt a brilliant pure boxer down? I have only see him fruatrate Leonard and make him fight his fight, which is how he won the first fight. Duran is not that hard to predict and Mayweather would eventually figure his style out.
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Old 02-01-2008, 09:24 PM   #45
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Default Re: Let's get a consensus list of all of fighters...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16[QUOTE
]I said that Maywether was more technically sound than Ray Leonard was.
And I said what I said, it means not a damn thing.

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It would have been the same result. Duran would never beat a Ray Leonard that sticks to his game plan and avoid slugging. You see what happened in the second fight.
I just told you what happened in the second fight. You clearly don't read my posts before responding. It's very annoying. I think you do it on purpose so as not to have to respond to anything difficult.

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You are insane if you think that Castillio out boxed Mayweather and Duran would out box Mayweater.
When did I say that? You said a tactical battle. Bullying up against the ropes, pressuring, and using roughing "tactics" are indeed tactics. Therefore it's a "tactical battle".

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Mayweather would outclass Duran on the outside and pretty easily.
Duran would do the same to Floyd on the inside, difference being, he would actually hurt Floyd.

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Mayweather has too much weaponary for Duran on the outside. The lead right hand would be blinding and the counter check left hook would also come into play.
Why would the check-hook come into play? This makes you sound like a fanboy. He did it once in his career against Hatton, and you think it comes into play for what reason?

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Duran is not even a pressure fighter and since when have known him to hunt a brilliant pure boxer down? I have only see him fruatrate Leonard and make him fight his fight, which is how he won the first fight. Duran is not that hard to predict and Mayweather would eventually figure his style out.
Are you trying to upset me? Or was that all serious? Duran is not hard to predict? He's one of the most versatile fighters of all time. Duran is not a pressure fighter? In that case, Floyd is not a boxer.
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