Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive?

SugarShane_24 · 10-26-2012, 06:18 AM

I'm talking about it from a scoring perspective.

I've noticed that some great BJJ guys who are great off their backs or just very confident with their ground game, seems to let themselves get taken down.

However, more often than not, getting taken down seems like an automatic point for the guy who shoots. Depending on how a judge views things.

I know that they can easily get a submission, or probably sweep and be on top. But what if they don't, and they gave away a takedown?

benr17 · 10-26-2012, 06:44 AM

Possibly. But if their ground work is really strong, and their going to get smashed on their feet then surely keeping it standing is worse?

And plus it's not counter-productive if they then go on and win the fight by submission is it?

thejokerswild · 10-26-2012, 07:11 AM

It's a price they pay fighting their fight.

Not 100% sure on how they judge but boxing judging would say Voluntary takedown is hardly receiving an act of affective aggression. More of a mutual transition of the fight, arguably even an points for ring generalship

Say a wrestler fighting bjj technician, no surprises where this fight is heading.

RJJFan · 10-26-2012, 04:54 PM

BJJ Blackbelt Maia throwing Wrestler Sonnen:

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_as...nUF_medium.gif

Rob_Floyd · 10-26-2012, 05:14 PM

Not if the scoring system gets the makeover that it needs.

ufoalf · 10-26-2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJJFan

BJJ Blackbelt Maia throwing Wrestler Sonnen:

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_as...nUF_medium.gif

Beautiful.

Big Red · 10-26-2012, 06:55 PM

Yeah I always basicly thought it was a bad way to fight. I used to have bjj guys I would ground fight with and they were always pulling guard. They thought it was the end all and be all of ground fighting because of the Gracies I guess.

Its good sometimes, but during the 90s and early 2000s the bbj guys were really limited themselfs imo because they were always wanting to pull guard, the ones I did ground work with anyway.

It used to bother me because they thought it was the best way to fight on the ground because of Gracie. It has its good points though.

RJJFan · 10-26-2012, 08:53 PM

This BJJer seems to be doing a lot of takedowns:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0_6u07fOcI[/ame]

rusty nails · 10-26-2012, 10:56 PM

you always want to fight on top if you can but when the guy absolutely refuses to go to the ground with you pulling guard can be a necessity

EL BULLY · 10-27-2012, 01:04 AM

Depends. If you are a BJJ expert and you are fighting a striker with no JJ that is kicking your arse standing up, pulling guard and fighting off your back can only be a good thing.

codeman99998 · 10-27-2012, 03:05 AM

The conventional wisdom on Carlos Condit is that he can be so dynamic with his striking because he is so confident fighting off of his back.

Confidence in fighting off of your back can translate into confidence in throwing kicks, knees or any other strike that could leave you open to being taken down.

Rob_Floyd · 10-27-2012, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman99998

The conventional wisdom on Carlos Condit is that he can be so dynamic with his striking because he is so confident fighting off of his back.

Confidence in fighting off of your back can translate into confidence in throwing kicks, knees or any other strike that could leave you open to being taken down.

Same can be said for guys like Mousasi, Shogun, Torres, and the Diaz brothers. Without worrying about the takedown, your striking game really opens up.

Ne5ville14 · 10-27-2012, 03:37 AM

Pettis too !

Rob_Floyd · 10-27-2012, 03:58 AM

Yes, he too.

Personally, I like to call them complete fighters. It's a crazy term, but I think it works.

PIRA · 10-27-2012, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Red

Yeah I always basicly thought it was a bad way to fight. I used to have bjj guys I would ground fight with and they were always pulling guard. They thought it was the end all and be all of ground fighting because of the Gracies I guess.

Its good sometimes, but during the 90s and early 2000s the bbj guys were really limited themselfs imo because they were always wanting to pull guard, the ones I did ground work with anyway.

It used to bother me because they thought it was the best way to fight on the ground because of Gracie. It has its good points though.

These days seems to have changed quite a bit and evened out with more throws and sweeps.

10-26-2012, 06:18 AM	#1
SugarShane_24 ESB good-looking member ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: the few, the proud, the Philippines Posts: 4,776 vCash: 449	Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? I'm talking about it from a scoring perspective. I've noticed that some great BJJ guys who are great off their backs or just very confident with their ground game, seems to let themselves get taken down. However, more often than not, getting taken down seems like an automatic point for the guy who shoots. Depending on how a judge views things. I know that they can easily get a submission, or probably sweep and be on top. But what if they don't, and they gave away a takedown?
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10-26-2012, 06:44 AM	#2
benr17 newbie Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2 vCash: 500	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? Possibly. But if their ground work is really strong, and their going to get smashed on their feet then surely keeping it standing is worse? And plus it's not counter-productive if they then go on and win the fight by submission is it?
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10-26-2012, 07:11 AM	#3
thejokerswild P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 18,179 vCash: 75	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? It's a price they pay fighting their fight. Not 100% sure on how they judge but boxing judging would say Voluntary takedown is hardly receiving an act of affective aggression. More of a mutual transition of the fight, arguably even an points for ring generalship Say a wrestler fighting bjj technician, no surprises where this fight is heading. Last edited by thejokerswild; 10-26-2012 at 07:23 AM.
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10-26-2012, 04:54 PM	#4
RJJFan Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,854 vCash: 328	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? BJJ Blackbelt Maia throwing Wrestler Sonnen: http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_as...nUF_medium.gif
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10-26-2012, 05:14 PM	#5
Rob_Floyd Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 4,979 vCash: 847	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? Not if the scoring system gets the makeover that it needs.
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10-26-2012, 06:55 PM	#7
Big Red Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,011 vCash: 1036	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? Yeah I always basicly thought it was a bad way to fight. I used to have bjj guys I would ground fight with and they were always pulling guard. They thought it was the end all and be all of ground fighting because of the Gracies I guess. Its good sometimes, but during the 90s and early 2000s the bbj guys were really limited themselfs imo because they were always wanting to pull guard, the ones I did ground work with anyway. It used to bother me because they thought it was the best way to fight on the ground because of Gracie. It has its good points though.
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10-26-2012, 08:53 PM	#8
RJJFan Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,854 vCash: 328	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? This BJJer seems to be doing a lot of takedowns: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0_6u07fOcI[/ame]
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10-26-2012, 10:56 PM	#9
rusty nails Tszyu for PM!! East Side Guru Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: dunno..where am i??? Posts: 6,722 vCash: 1000	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? you always want to fight on top if you can but when the guy absolutely refuses to go to the ground with you pulling guard can be a necessity
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10-27-2012, 01:04 AM	#10
EL BULLY Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,458 vCash: 1000	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? Depends. If you are a BJJ expert and you are fighting a striker with no JJ that is kicking your arse standing up, pulling guard and fighting off your back can only be a good thing.
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10-27-2012, 03:05 AM	#11
codeman99998 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,984 vCash: 1000	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? The conventional wisdom on Carlos Condit is that he can be so dynamic with his striking because he is so confident fighting off of his back. Confidence in fighting off of your back can translate into confidence in throwing kicks, knees or any other strike that could leave you open to being taken down.
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10-27-2012, 03:37 AM	#13
Ne5ville14 Rationalist by default... East Side Guru Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,894 vCash: 500	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? Pettis too !
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10-27-2012, 03:58 AM	#14
Rob_Floyd Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 4,979 vCash: 847	Re: Is confidence in fighting off your back counterproductive? Yes, he too. Personally, I like to call them complete fighters. It's a crazy term, but I think it works.
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