Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-31-2008, 11:51 PM   #1
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Was Willard the worst ?

Was Jess Willard the worst of the real heavyweight champions ?

Ignore the modern alphabet champs, and just compare him to the linear champs from Sullivan through to Lewis.

How bad was Willard ?

Personally, I dont rate him highly at all, but I think he legitimately beat Jack Johnson by KO in 26th round, and I do think he had a great chin. 26 rounds in the sun deserves some credit, esp. when he was taking a lot of punishment there.

Still, I dont know who was positively WORSE than Willard.

Hasim Rahman ? Leon Spinks ?
Primo Carnera ? Were they worse than Willard ?
 Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-31-2008, 11:54 PM   #2
Russell
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,108
vCash: 75
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Thing is, Willard was never some hell bent lover of the sport. He was probably less "into" boxing than Max Baer.

He literally strategically got behind the referee at times because he just didn't want to push a fight.

And even then he had the power to ****ing KILL people with single uppercuts.
Russell is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 11:56 PM   #3
Dempsey1238
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Willard is underated, He is far from the worse Lineal champ. I think I put him over guys like Spinks, Rahman, Briggs and others. I also belive Willard at his peak and under HIS rule set, could be hell for nearly any one that cant blow him out in 3 rounds(Dempsey) I give the Punchers of the champions better shots than I do the boxers in this rule set.
Dempsey1238 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 11:58 PM   #4
Russell
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,108
vCash: 75
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Willard underestimated Dempsey to a stupid degree regardless, and that might of been the most driven and bloodthirsty Dempsey ever, so eh.
Russell is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 12:02 AM   #5
Dempsey1238
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
Willard underestimated Dempsey to a stupid degree regardless, and that might of been the most driven and bloodthirsty Dempsey ever, so eh.
Well no one didnt relly know Dempsey would be the next big thing though. And Willard was champion for a number of years(Yes a inactive champion of couse) So thats bound to make understimated some one I suppose.
Dempsey1238 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 12:10 AM   #6
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
Willard is underated, He is far from the worse Lineal champ. I think I put him over guys like Spinks, Rahman, Briggs and others. I also belive Willard at his peak and under HIS rule set, could be hell for nearly any one that cant blow him out in 3 rounds(Dempsey) I give the Punchers of the champions better shots than I do the boxers in this rule set.
I forgot about Briggs.
I agree that Willard poses something of a problem in a long fight against guys who cant knock him out.
What is Willard's rule set ? Longer fights ?

I would disagree that Willard is "far from the worst linear champ", I'd say he falls within the bottom handful. Then again, that doesn't say much for Jack Johnson.

I do believe most of the linear champs and undisputed champs were good and very good fighters, so I dont necessarily "underrate" Willard. His toughness is legendary, and rightly so.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 12:13 AM   #7
Dempsey1238
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
I forgot about Briggs.
I agree that Willard poses something of a problem in a long fight against guys who cant knock him out.
What is Willard's rule set ? Longer fights ?

I would disagree that Willard is "far from the worst linear champ", I'd say he falls within the bottom handful. Then again, that doesn't say much for Jack Johnson.

I do believe most of the linear champs and undisputed champs were good and very good fighters, so I dont necessarily "underrate" Willard. His toughness is legendary, and rightly so.
More than just longer fights, the smaller gloves, lax Refs, Inside clich work. The standers of the 1910's or so. People have called me crazy before, but before the Crash, I said I felt Willard might be able to beat Ali in a 45 round fight under the 1910's rule set.
Dempsey1238 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 12:32 AM   #8
Russell
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,108
vCash: 75
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Johnson had been in France indulging in their food and wine for years at the time Willard beat him.

Not too terribly suprising.
Russell is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 01:02 AM   #9
Sizzle
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 647
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

In terms of skill, and fighters instinct, he's quite possibly one of the worst, if not the worst.

But he's very large, incredibly durable, and has tremendous power if he can actually set his right up to land.

I'd probably favour him to be a titlist in the modern era, but probably lose a very lopsided decision to Klitschko.

I'd favour just about every lineal champion to beat him, but he has the old "punchers chance" against the likes of Patterson, Schmeling, and perhaps Rahman.
Sizzle is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 01:11 AM   #10
SteveO
MSW
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,126
vCash: 1040
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Worse than Buster Douglas?

(assuming we're looking strictly at championship reign).
SteveO is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 01:14 AM   #11
RafaelGonzal
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,818
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Primo Carnera was worse
RafaelGonzal is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 01:31 AM   #12
Dempsey1238
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Carnera is underated also. He look impressive in fights outside of Louis and Baer, I put Carnea on the level of VK or so. Perhaps Wlad.
Dempsey1238 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 04:01 AM   #13
Jack Dempsey
Legend
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The sooner the safer
Posts: 3,614
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

I'd say Carnera was the worst
Jack Dempsey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 05:27 AM   #14
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzle
I'd favour just about every lineal champion to beat him, but he has the old "punchers chance" against the likes of Patterson, Schmeling, and perhaps Rahman.
I agree. In fact, he has a "puncher's chance" against almost anyone.
Lennox Lewis and Ezzard Charles lost their titles due to one punch, so they should be mentioned before Schmeling, IMO.
But "puncher's chance" doesn't amount to much. Most heavyweights have it.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 05:30 AM   #15
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Was Willard the worst ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Dempsey
I'd say Carnera was the worst
Carnera looks a bit better on film than Willard - until he gets hit ! Carnera couldn't take it too well.
Also, though I dont believe every word of it, the rumours that Carnera's fights were fixed probably have some basis in truth.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013