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Old 10-28-2012, 07:49 AM   #31
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

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Janitor is smashing this guy

This is horrific.
Yet, its like a car accident...people still pull of to the shoulder and watch!
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:57 AM   #32
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

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As I have stated many times before, Dempsey is a fighter who has shown both great and awful technique. Then again, we have limited film of him, and almost none of his rise to the title, his peak form of 1918-1920.

Guys like Sharkey and Schmeling look good on film both with speed and form. Tunney looks almost perfect. Louis looks otherworldly.

It's not as though the species has evolved over the past 4 or 5 generations. The same speed, strength and endurance are there. What has evolved are the rules, the gloves, the weigh ins, the length of fights, the emphasis in training, the level of experience fighters bring to the ring.... For guys like Harry Greb, Ray Robinson and Archie Moore, boxing was something they competed in every month, if not every week. It was not something to be trained for over the course of 6 months for a single encounter.
What about PEDs? What effect, positive or negative, do you see them having on today's boxing landscape?
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:22 AM   #33
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

In general I believe the old timers had more heart, and had better stamina. They were also better at body punching, feinting, and in-fighting. I believe the modern generation has better training techniques, are better out-fighters, uses better nutrition / substances, and benefits from better medical care to heal injuries.

Boxing changed over the decades, however if you are talking heavyweight the one thing a fighter is unlikely to change his bone length and structure. Smaller with skills can beat larger with moderate skills, but when the skill level is close to even, a significant height, reach, and weight advantage is difficult for the smaller fighter to overcome.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:20 AM   #34
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

its funny..i was doing the calculations on how many posts per day 29,000 posts over 4 years equates to and I was thinking "wow this guy is weird"...then I realised it was actually 39,000!!! Yikes!! PHYYYYYYSCOOOOO!!
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:20 AM   #35
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

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In general I believe the old timers had more heart, and had better stamina. They were also better at body punching, feinting, and in-fighting. I believe the modern generation has better training techniques, are better out-fighters, uses better nutrition / substances, and benefits from better medical care to heal injuries.

Boxing changed over the decades, however if you are talking heavyweight the one thing a fighter is unlikely to change his bone length and structure. Smaller with skills can beat larger with moderate skills, but when the skill level is close to even, a significant height, reach, and weight advantage is difficult for the smaller fighter to overcome.
Heart's very difficult to quantify, though you definitely don't see the sort of crazy wars as much as you used to, and it seems to me that fighters quit on their stools a lot more today. Where I will say older fighters are clearly superior is in work ethic. Whilst it wasn't unheard of to fight once or twice a year, it was a lot rarer. At heavyweight it would have been almost unthinkable for any top fighter to come into a title fight looking like a jiggling sack of spuds. This is considered quite common nowadays.

The nutrition argument might hold water for the very, very top end of the sport, the Mayweathers and the Klitschkos etc, but there are numerous fighters who eat like absolute pigs between fights, and even sometimes before fights. Having the "nutritional advances" and actually using them are two different things. Too many fighters lack discipline in their preparation to stick to the sorts of rigid diets that would benefit them in this area.

I wouldn't say modern fighters are trained better either. You train for what you are going to do in the ring. Old timers trained for fifteen round fights that would most likely be fought for a large degree on the inside. Modern day fighters train for twelve round fights where speed, timing, power and so on will be the main factors. The training's different, it's not necessarily better or worse. The sorts of skills an older fighter would concentrate on wouldn't necessarily ensure him the same degree of success today, and vice versa.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:21 AM   #36
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

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Carl Froch. That is all that needs to be said.
In what way?
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:23 AM   #37
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Janitor is smashing this guy

This is horrific.
Mind you if they are as insightful as this then I guess it is possible
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:42 AM   #38
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

[quote=janitor;14087468]
Quote:
Liston was technicaly better in prety much any department you can name, but Clay was faster.

That rather undermines your central argument.
Really?? Like what?

Better foot work = Couldnt keep up with Clay even though his footwork was technically better.

Jab = Completely outjabbed by Clay even though his jab was technically better

Right Hand = Couldnt land it even though technically better then Clays

Ring Generalship = Couldnt cut off the ring even though he was technically better at it than Clay

Better Head Movemnet = Technically very good explaining why he was getting pummeled by Clay

Do I need to go on?

Post Ali = Leonard, Martinez, Mayweather, Gomez, RJJ, Pacquaio, Judah the list goes on and on..

Champions (without massive size advantage) who fight flat footed in a slow plodding jab jab right style = None (Contenders, Journeymen and Punching bags = plenty).
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:28 AM   #39
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

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Its not training techniques, its the actual fighting style that has changed....the style or techniques required to win has evolved...fighters were much slower back in the 20's, 30's and 40's

Granted it may just be the grainy old footage that makes them all look slow, ponderous and cumbersome with an awkward style..

Joe was so slow compared to todays fighters (again recognising that the grainy old footage could play a big part in that impression).

Perfect technique for the day...

and FOR SURE they do not appear fast in the old footage.

head to head comparison those guys are destined to lose stylistically.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7C-ihyCWjs[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeHSseSpTvY[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLuye_mLT2M[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0wQwA5xyN4[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbAjDPbJ6e0[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUfY65jXGbE[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKfD77DfSoI[/ame]


End Of This Ignorant & Insulting Thread
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:40 AM   #40
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

Check out this stylistic Cro-Mag...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETDzw3cv_YA[/ame]
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:03 AM   #41
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

Thanks for posting the videos of these hopelessly out dated boxing styles (with the exception of Willie Pep)..thank goodness someone else gets it
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:09 AM   #42
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

And SRR of course but he was the birth place of the modern era of fighting styles anyway..so good because he was ahead of his time
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:15 AM   #43
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

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Thanks for posting the videos of these hopelessly out dated boxing styles (with the exception of Willie Pep)..thank goodness someone else gets it
what are today's superior styles to you ?

Bambi legged Amir Khan ? what else ?
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:24 AM   #44
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

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what are today's superior styles to you ?

Bambi legged Amir Khan ? what else ?
Yeah fair point..there arent that many great around today apart but I dont think styles have changed much since the 1980's and 199o so for argumants sake you could say I am referring to guys from that era..

For starters no ones shuffles round the ring dragging their right foot behind them...people stopped planting their feet and telegraphing shots...more upright style to avoid the jab jab right style of the past eras...no more left hand way down and stuck out to the front as the "on guard" stance...no more crouching over and susceptible to the short chopping right...no more lunging in on shots...no more back hand slaps...no more open hand parrys...
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:26 AM   #45
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Default Re: Head To Head Comaprisons - Please Clarify

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Thanks for posting the videos of these hopelessly out dated boxing styles (with the exception of Willie Pep)..thank goodness someone else gets it
Your ignorance of boxing is unbelievable
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