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Old 10-27-2012, 06:17 PM   #16
SuzieQ49
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Of course he could.

Give me anybody’s top 20 heavyweight list, and I am sure that #20 will have a good chance against #1, unless there is a big stylistic dynamic working against him i.e. Louis Patterson.
Louis Patterson is a bad example...Patterson could have easily dented Louis's chin, big time.


A better example would be floyd patterson vs george foreman
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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\Wrong Flea, Clay?Ali , never saw the day he could beat the Joe Louis
of the Max Baer fight...Ali could run but he couldn't HIDE...Louis in his prime utterly destroyed everyone,whereas Ali lost to Norton, dropped by
a Henry Cooper,lost and dropped by Joe Frazier, and had to use RopaDope
because he didn't punch hard enough to keep men off him...If Ali
was not controversial and colorful, his reputation as the "greatest"
would not have existed as it is today... Brave yes ?... An all around great fighter as Ray Robinson or Ray Leonard ? No. Would Ali beat a dynamic young Joe Louis. ? NAY...
Louis didn't have the foot speed to catch Ali. Ali would make him look very slow. You talk about Henry Cooper, but Louis got dropped multiple times in his career. He also got clowned by Billy Conn. Louis was too stationary and too easy to hit for Ali not to pick him apart.
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:26 PM   #18
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Louis didn't have the foot speed to catch Ali. Ali would make him look very slow. You talk about Henry Cooper, but Louis got dropped multiple times in his career. He also got clowned by Billy Conn. Louis was too stationary and too easy to hit for Ali not to pick him apart.
Louis was only stationary when he wanted to be.
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

The idea Louis could not move or did not have great footwork is a complete fallacy. Louis could do it all in his prime. You can find fights where he bobs and weaves, moves side to side counterpunching and yes attacks going for the quick ko. An Ali Louis fight would be a great fight and don't think for a second that Louis did not have the tools to win because he certainly did......the most skillful heavyweight who ever lived.
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:45 PM   #20
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Of course i respect your opinion BB but to use an example of a Prime Louis against examples of a non-prime Ali is hardly a level playing field. Its no more different than me citing the Louis who was bounced around by Schmeling against the Ali of the Terrell fight
JF ,yes I should have not included a past prime Ali in this thread...But as
someone once asked when was the "prime" Ali ? before his ban when he was dropped at the end of a round by Cooper,and was faster or after ? Either way Louis for 12 years DOMINATED his division as NO OTHER
heavyweight EVER by obliterating his opponents in a rematch if not the first bout...Ali never DOMINATED his division as much as Louis did...
I saw the FOTC in 1951 at MSG and Ali and one of my favourites Joe Frazier put on quite a show, but the trip-hammer hitting Joe Louis would have finished Ali when he had him hurt...I STAND by my assertion that BOTH in their prime M2M the Joe Louis of Max Baer vintage, catches up to Clay/Ali
{just look at his panther like lefthooks] and finishes what he starts...
No fighter before or AFTER could stand up to THIS Louis's barrage and survive...I am convinced that this version of Joe Louis catches up to Billy Conn way before the 13th rd in 1941 and kos Billy earlier...This Louis hit almost as fast as Clay/Ali and TWICE as HARD...PRIME FOR PRIME...
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:47 PM   #21
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

Guys with the best chance are Dempsey, Tyson, Marciano, Johnson, and Frazier.

I'd say a dark horse is Wlad Klitschko.

I don't think Louis would get him either. Ali had a great chin, and he could run around the ring and throw jabs and Louis, winning by a boring decision.
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Harold Johnson would have given Ali fits

You hit the nail on the proverbial head Sir.

Styles is what makes fights, especially with Cassius Clay.
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
The idea Louis could not move or did not have great footwork is a complete fallacy. Louis could do it all in his prime. You can find fights where he bobs and weaves, moves side to side counterpunching and yes attacks going for the quick ko. An Ali Louis fight would be a great fight and don't think for a second that Louis did not have the tools to win because he certainly did......the most skillful heavyweight who ever lived.
I agree. The only real ***** in his armour (for lack of a better description) was that he was (IMO) susceptible to straight rights. Having said that, Ali ate his fair share of left hooks too, so it makes for an interesting night to say the least
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:57 PM   #24
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
You hit the nail on the proverbial head Sir.

Styles is what makes fights, especially with Cassius Clay.
Did Phil Berger tell you that SP?
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Did Phil Berger tell you that SP?
I found a quote in the News of Cumberland County.

Actually, all the people who saw Tony Ayala Jr. spar with Pipino Cuevas, said that a 14 1/2 year-old 'El Torito' could have beaten the crap out of Clay.
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:34 PM   #26
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

Maybe a guy like Whiterspoon would have success.
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:45 PM   #27
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

I like Lewis chances.
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:48 PM   #28
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

Well, if you're looking specifically for people outside the top 20 who could beat Ali, then my pick is Tim Witherspoon. He negated Larry's jab and went to town on the body the entire fight. Ali(post exile) , as you all know, had a very similar style to Larry and I see Witherspoon possibly having comparable success.
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:49 PM   #29
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Maybe a guy like Whiterspoon would have success.
Damn you beat me to it. Well, I agree 100% as you'll see from my post above.
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Originally Posted by Son of Gaul View Post
Well, if you're looking specifically for people outside the top 20 who could beat Ali, then my pick is Tim Witherspoon. He negated Larry's jab and went to town on the body the entire fight. Ali(post exile) , as you all know, had a very similar style to Larry and I see Witherspoon possibly having comparable success.
Terrible Tim also have many similarities with Norton, Ali's second greatest rival. Crab defense, come forward type of fighter, effective and committed body puncher.
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