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Old 10-27-2012, 09:31 PM   #46
mr. magoo
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Lumbering Sanders would be destroyed by Prime Ali.
Beaten yes. "Destroyed", without even making a mark, I don't know.. Henry Cooper was a limited fighter who's handspeed and power were nothing compared to Sanders, and he resoundingly decked clay to where if the ropes hadn't been there, it might have been a serious problem.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:33 PM   #47
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

I remember Sir Cooper stated that at that particular time Ali did not know how to fight on the inside, and slapped his left hook away which is why he got pummeled and was sent to the canvas.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:35 PM   #48
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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I remember Sir Cooper stated that at that particular time Ali did not know how to fight on the inside, and slapped his left hook away which is why he got pummeled and was sent to the canvas.
True. Clay was green when Sir Henry fought him for the first time in 63'. Still, the left hook was Ali's achilles heel throughout his career.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:36 PM   #49
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Lumbering Sanders would be destroyed by Prime Ali.
Watch the Wlad fight again and ask yourself if Sanders "lumbered". Those were some fast damned hands.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

Tyson beats Ali
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:42 PM   #51
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

A guy who "lumbered" couldn't have landed with those fast hands.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:43 PM   #52
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

Lumbering does not relate to hand speed. Sanders was a limited fighter....he is not doing well vs prime Ali. We are talking prime Ali here so the fighter who beat Williams not the fighter who beat Cooper.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:46 PM   #53
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Lumbering does not relate to hand speed. Sanders was a limited fighter....he is not doing well vs prime Ali. We are talking prime Ali here so the fighter who beat Williams not the fighter who beat Cooper.
I love Sanders, and I think he would not be able to put a glove on Ali. I see Ali circling around Sanders, make him miss, let a couple rounds go by, and when Sanders starts to get fatigued, Ali moves in for the kill.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:48 PM   #54
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Lumbering does not relate to hand speed. Sanders was a limited fighter....he is not doing well vs prime Ali. We are talking prime Ali here so the fighter who beat Williams not the fighter who beat Cooper.
Not claiming that Sanders would beat Ali, nor even give him a battle of epic proportions. But given that Ali struggled with left hooks his ENTIRE career, and that Sanders was a pure southpaw, it would give him something to work with. Ad to that Sanders fast hands and power to get Ali's attention, it might actually be a fight for however long it lasted.. Eventually Ali's superior movement, stamina, and chin would prevail and result in a stoppage late.. But the first five or six rounds might be hell for him..
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:52 PM   #55
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

Ali from 65-67 is the most difficult heavyweight to beat in my mind nd wouldnt pick any heavyweight in history to beat him on his best day.

Tricky fights where Ali would not look good in would include Ray Mercer, Sanders and Ruiz. wouldnt fancy any of them to beat him though.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:53 PM   #56
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

If we are talking prime Ali Sanders won't touch him much. Liston had an all time hook and he did not come close to flooring Ali. Sanders had quick hands but lumbered physically. Again we are talking the best Ali not Ali on an off night or post 1968.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:57 PM   #57
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
If we are talking prime Ali Sanders won't touch him much. Liston had an all time hook and he did not come close to flooring Ali. Sanders had quick hands but lumbered physically. Again we are talking the best Ali not Ali on an off night or post 1968.
I can't contest your opinion, and you may well be right. But for me, styles make fights and in this case, there would also be some physical attributes that would come into play as well. Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time in my opinion, while Sanders was not even top 100. But that does not mean in my mind that he didn't have some components that would give the man some trouble..
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:00 PM   #58
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

Always possible certainly but in my mind not likely if he is fighting prime Ali.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:03 PM   #59
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
I found a quote in the News of Cumberland County.

Actually, all the people who saw Tony Ayala Jr. spar with Pipino Cuevas, said that a 14 1/2 year-old 'El Torito' could have beaten the **** out of Clay.
I think you found it in a Cumberland sausage.


Source please?



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Old 10-27-2012, 10:08 PM   #60
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Ali hated to be crowded...Marciano would be on him all night long...over 15 rounds...pressure...pressure...pressure. Prime Louis...as Burt said of the Baer fight...or the 2nd Schmeling fight in 1938 would catch Ali...when did Ali suddenly become unhittable?
"Catch" as in catch up to and corner long enough to do serious damage.

Marciano doesn't have the foot speed to catch Ali either. In the middle of the ring, Marciano is a slow-moving plodder and he'd be at a massive reach disadvantage.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ali was able to ragdoll Marciano the way he did other smaller guys. Marciano weighed 20 pounds less than Frazier did in the FOTC, while about the same height. Does that Frazier look like he has 20 pounds of excess fat to lose? I don't think so. Ali looked big next to Frazier and would look even bigger next to Marciano.
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