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Old 10-27-2012, 09:15 PM   #61
mr. magoo
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Originally Posted by rusak View Post
"Catch" as in catch up to and corner long enough to do serious damage.

Marciano doesn't have the foot speed to catch Ali either. In the middle of the ring, Marciano is a slow-moving plodder and he'd be at a massive reach disadvantage.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ali was able to ragdoll Marciano the way he did other smaller guys. Marciano weighed 20 pounds less than Frazier did in the FOTC, while about the same height. Does that Frazier look like he has 20 pounds of excess fat to lose? I don't think so. Ali looked big next to Frazier and would look even bigger next to Marciano.

I'll also ad that Frazier, despite having an extra 20 lbs on Rocky, also had superior handspeed and upper body movement that was off the charts... Not to mention a more polished left hook which was Ali's main weakness.. Marciano's style was the right blue print to trouble Ali, but he didn't have enough of the additional stuff needed to make it work.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:15 PM   #62
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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I wouldn't be surprised if Ali was able to ragdoll Marciano the way he did other smaller guys. Marciano weighed 20 pounds less than Frazier did in the FOTC, while about the same height. Does that Frazier look like he has 20 pounds of excess fat to lose? I don't think so. Ali looked big next to Frazier and would look even bigger next to Marciano
I do pick Ali over Marciano, but Marciano was definitely stronger than frazier.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:18 PM   #63
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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I do pick Ali over Marciano, but Marciano was definitely stronger than frazier.
And he had a better chin.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:22 PM   #64
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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And he had a better chin.
based on what ?
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:32 PM   #65
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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based on what ?
New to boxing, eh Col. Sanders?
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:35 PM   #66
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

Ezzard Charles could have done well, more of a classic boxer than Ali and caught alot of his opponents like Ali did would have given him trouble.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:49 PM   #67
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

other than the top 3 Louis,Marciano and Dempsey, I think Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott would have a great chance,
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:51 PM   #68
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

Ali said himself that if he fought Rocky multiple times he would win one and Rocky would win the other. Ali also stated that just sparring/fooling around he could not lift his arms after being punched by Marciano. He stated that Rocky hit "so hard". I was at one time a huge Marciano critic but after years of watching him in action I have changed my tune. He was deceptively hard to hit. That deep crouch and constant punching.....watch his bouts with Charles and Walcott who were both sharpshooters....they were surprised how many shots they missed. Rocky was overall a much better fighter than Frazier. Just the fact Marciano had two hands that could be used equally well vs Fraziers hook is one thing but Rockys deep crouch made him a tough target.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:05 PM   #69
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

In Ali,s prime the only man that remotely come close to given him a hard time would have been Louis.....Maybe Tyson, but Ali still beats them both.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:19 PM   #70
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

In their primes.

Jack Johnson; would hold his own against Ali.may even beat him. Practically the same style and very very smart.

Louis; beats him because not only was he a great fighter but Blackburn in Louis corner is like fighting 2 on 1. That's why Joe Louis was so damn good.

Jeffries; never seen him fight.

Dempsey; hard to say but I don't think Dempsey would, His only strength his ability to take a beating over 10rounds and come out in the 11th and fight like its round 1.

Marciano; Hard to jab and could seriously take a beating and could give one. Would just keep taking Ali's jab and moving forward to hit him. I think Marciano and Ali is hard to say. 50/50.

Holmes; we're talking prime here and Ali is everything better then Holmes.

Tyson; hard to say does Tyson slip his way in and hurt him or does Ali play really defensive and wear him down, And is Cus in his corner or Rooney. If Cus I give it to Tyson. But again 50/50.

Lewis; Ali beats him in the middle or late stage.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:36 PM   #71
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Originally Posted by red cobra View Post
New to boxing, eh Col. Sanders?
not exactly new to boxing

Frazier was dropped numerous times

Marciano was dropped twice by punches I believe Frazier would have taken without going down

and when did Marciano fight a powerful puncher such as Foreman ? aging Louis doesn't really count
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:38 PM   #72
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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I think dempsey is a bit better than you give him credit for...johnson really doesnt have the same style as ali...unless you mean as in the style of pissing off the white establishment.
I think if Dempsey kept coming at Ali, Alis footwork would reign supreme.

Johnson and Ali. Johnson didn't really jab but Ali moves his head back like Johnson,They both used their heads in the ring,Like to feint,Liked to throw bunch of punches then step back,Awesome counter punchers.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:38 PM   #73
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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In their primes.

Jack Johnson; would hold his own against Ali.may even beat him. Practically the same style and very very smart.

Louis; beats him because not only was he a great fighter but Blackburn in Louis corner is like fighting 2 on 1. That's why Joe Louis was so damn good.

Jeffries; never seen him fight.

Dempsey; hard to say but I don't think Dempsey would, His only strength his ability to take a beating over 10rounds and come out in the 11th and fight like its round 1.

Marciano; Hard to jab and could seriously take a beating and could give one. Would just keep taking Ali's jab and moving forward to hit him. I think Marciano and Ali is hard to say. 50/50.

Holmes; we're talking prime here and Ali is everything better then Holmes.

Tyson; hard to say does Tyson slip his way in and hurt him or does Ali play really defensive and wear him down, And is Cus in his corner or Rooney. If Cus I give it to Tyson. But again 50/50.

Lewis; Ali beats him in the middle or late stage.
So Dempsey's ONLY ability is to take a beating etc...? Sir what part of Tibet do you reside in ?
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:42 PM   #74
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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So Dempsey's ONLY ability is to take a beating etc...? Sir what part of Tibet do you reside in ?
Sir what do you think Dempsey would do against Ali but rush him and take a beating? Dempsey Vs Tunney is proof enough that a prime Ali would beat Dempsey.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:30 PM   #75
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Default Re: The men who could beat Ali

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Ali said himself that if he fought Rocky multiple times he would win one and Rocky would win the other. Ali also stated that just sparring/fooling around he could not lift his arms after being punched by Marciano. He stated that Rocky hit "so hard". I was at one time a huge Marciano critic but after years of watching him in action I have changed my tune. He was deceptively hard to hit. That deep crouch and constant punching.....watch his bouts with Charles and Walcott who were both sharpshooters....they were surprised how many shots they missed. Rocky was overall a much better fighter than Frazier. Just the fact Marciano had two hands that could be used equally well vs Fraziers hook is one thing but Rockys deep crouch made him a tough target.
So Ali can't give an old man a compliment without it being blown out of proportion? Do you think Marciano hit twice as hard as Frazier, or what? Because we've seen guys bigger and stronger than Marciano beat the shit out of Ali's arms, and guess what - he could still lift them. This "beating up the arms"/"ruptured blood vessels" bullshit that Marciano fans peddle in every thread needs to stop. It's a load of crap. Marciano was not the first, nor the last, person to hit someone on the arms.

What I think happened between Ali and Marciano, if anything, is that Ali probably thought they were just fooling around. But Marciano, the toupee wearing nutcase that he was, decided to show Ali that he "still had it" and so he hit him hard. Yeah, so now in the minds of lunatics, Marciano hits harder than Foreman. In reality, this 185 lb man doesn't hit harder than any good puncher weighing 20-30-40 pounds more than him.

As for the deep crouch, it only comes out occasionally - watch some Marciano fights. Most of the time, he is in his usual sideways leaning stance, perfectly in range of Ali's jab. And a deep crouch wouldn't help him track Ali down. Try running around after someone in that kind of stance. All that Ali has to do is keep turning him. There's a reason that Mike Tyson came in bobbing and weaving, instead of in a "deep crouch" like an idiot.
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