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Old 10-31-2012, 04:42 PM   #31
turbotime
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post
turbotime, Thank you. I always thought this about Pernell and other fighters who were too good to be appreciated. Against Chavez his bodypunching is what kept Chavez from rushing in. It was amazing to see.
I can see why he was underrated. I mean this was the Chavez/Tyson/Trinidadian/Delahoya era, whereas Whitaker dominated in a completely different way that was less appealing to the public for lower weight champs.

The same way guys like Hopkins and Mayweather catch "hate" today IMO
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:44 PM   #32
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

He made boxing look easier than anyone ever.

No, he's not overrated.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:44 PM   #33
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Pernell fought probably the best Delahoya you could fight, who was fast and had a great counter left and hung in there with him. Pernell was the real deal.
You don't think Oscar was a tad green, Mag?
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:45 PM   #34
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Oscar green for that fight? You jest?
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:45 PM   #35
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

The Pea isn't overrated in the slightest.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Oscar had arrived. Not green in the slightest. Not at his absolute peak, but absolutely entering his prime.

The green oscar we saw just a couple years before wouldn't have managed to win the fight.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Oscar green for that fight? You jest?
This is between MAG and I
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

No. If anything, he's underrated.

Knit-picking his resume is unwarranted and reaching. Some fighters' resumes are called into question for good reasons, and there's no good reason to do that with him.

You actually went against the point you were trying to make with the Trinidad and Oscar examples; I don't think anyone on the pro-Whitaker side would argue for him being in his prime for those fights. He was in shape and very capable with Oscar, and against Trinidad, he was done. Far past it. I don't see how anyone could lump those two performances together in terms of Whitaker's ability or how much he had left.

So to say he was higher than his best weight for Oscar and a shadow of what he once was against Tito is more accurate, and that drives the point home further: he arguably beat Oscar and hung in there for 10 rounds with a broken jaw and little left of what made him great in a losing effort against a beast in Trinidad.

Saying Chavez was past it isn't exactly objective, either, since Chavez was still undefeated and a credible, dangerous opponent, to say the least. He weighed in 2lbs over the weight he had been campaigning at and doing quite well there, I'll add.


Who did he duck? If you're calling his resume into question, surely there must be someone in your mind that he should have fought and failed to...
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:59 PM   #39
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Pea took apart every fighter he ever fought till he was about 34. Arguably 37.

That is a feat Roy Jones met, didn't exceed.

Floyd, whether you thought he won(I thought he pulled it off) got kicked around by Castillo much younger.

Oscar and Tito? Same.

Mosley? Same.

Chavez? Lost his air of invincibility when Sweet Pea took him to school.


So, who? Who recently did it better?
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:01 PM   #40
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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No. If anything, he's underrated.

Knit-picking his resume is unwarranted and reaching. Some fighters' resumes are called into question for good reasons, and there's no good reason to do that with him.

You actually went against the point you were trying to make with the Trinidad and Oscar examples; I don't think anyone on the pro-Whitaker side would argue for him being in his prime for those fights. He was in shape and very capable with Oscar, and against Trinidad, he was done. Far past it. I don't see how anyone could lump those two performances together in terms of Whitaker's ability or how much he had left.

So to say he was higher than his best weight for Oscar and a shadow of what he once was against Tito is more accurate, and that drives the point home further: he arguably beat Oscar and hung in there for 10 rounds with a broken jaw and little left of what made him great in a losing effort against a beast in Trinidad.

Saying Chavez was past it isn't exactly objective, either, since Chavez was still undefeated and a credible, dangerous opponent, to say the least. He weighed in 2lbs over the weight he had been campaigning at and doing quite well there, I'll add.


Who did he duck? If you're calling his resume into question, surely there must be someone in your mind that he should have fought and failed to...
Again bragging about who he fought as an old man, you just cemented my point. Oscar, Mosley, Mayweather would beat everyone whitaker fought from 85-96, because his resume prior to oscar and tito isnt much.

I never accused him of being a chicken and ducker, i accused him of having a resume than doesnt live up to his ranking. Go ahead and name all the guys he beat that would even be ranked on a top 200 list. Chavez, Nelson, who else?

Jose Napoles would have a field day, if he was given 3-4 months to train for 1 opponent and fight the scrubs that whitaker fought. Napoles stepped into the ring with monzon, he beat curtis cokes twice, and 2 different lineal 140 champs, along with an old griffith that would still beat the bums whitaker was beating at welter. Napoles is underrated, whitaker is overrated.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:02 PM   #41
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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He made boxing look easier than anyone ever.

No, he's not overrated.
Well,..he and Locche.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:03 PM   #42
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Again bragging about who he fought as an old man, you just cemented my point. Oscar, Mosley, Mayweather would beat everyone whitaker fought from 85-96, because his resume prior to oscar and tito isnt much.

I never accused him of being a chicken and ducker, i accused him of having a resume than doesnt live up to his ranking. Go ahead and name all the guys he beat that would even be ranked on a top 200 list. Chavez, Nelson, who else?

Jose Napoles would have a field day, if he was given 3-4 months to train for 1 opponent and fight the scrubs that whitaker fought. Napoles stepped into the ring with monzon, he beat curtis cokes twice, and 2 different lineal 140 champs, along with an old griffith that would still beat the bums whitaker was beating at welter. Napoles is underrated, whitaker is overrated.
I agree that Naploes would have beaten Whitaker..
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:04 PM   #43
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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You don't think Oscar was a tad green, Mag?
Why was Oscar prime and not Ray when he fought Duran? The weight manly and Oscar was ahead of Ray in 1997 compared to Ray in June of 1980.

The Pernell fight was at 147, Oscar's 3rd division where he won belts. Oscar had a WBO jr lightweight reign. then WBO lightweight reign when he fought Paez, Ruelas,Genaro Hernandez, Leija, then Chavez and after that Pernell. Now Ray was on his second title defense of his second title when he fought Duran. Pernell was 1997 for Oscar, so 5 years or almost after he turned professional. What was 5 years after Ray turned professional? He was retiring from the sport for the first time only to comeback and fight Kevin Howard. Oscar was a head of Ray when he fought Pernell. compared to when Ray fought Duran the first time.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:05 PM   #44
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Napoles is definitely underrated. Top 5/25 locks for me both at 147 and P4P, respectively.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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I can see why he was underrated. I mean this was the Chavez/Tyson/Trinidadian/Delahoya era, whereas Whitaker dominated in a completely different way that was less appealing to the public for lower weight champs.

The same way guys like Hopkins and Mayweather catch "hate" today IMO
Well he was a little early for Oscar and Tito,, right with Chavez but too high in weight some would say at welt. So his timing was not the best to fight them all prime.
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