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Old 10-31-2012, 05:11 PM   #46
DaveK
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Again bragging about who he fought as an old man, you just cemented my point. Oscar, Mosley, Mayweather would beat everyone whitaker fought from 85-96, because his resume prior to oscar and tito isnt much.

I never accused him of being a chicken and ducker, i accused him of having a resume than doesnt live up to his ranking. Go ahead and name all the guys he beat that would even be ranked on a top 200 list. Chavez, Nelson, who else?

Jose Napoles would have a field day, if he was given 3-4 months to train for 1 opponent and fight the scrubs that whitaker fought. Napoles stepped into the ring with monzon, he beat curtis cokes twice, and 2 different lineal 140 champs, along with an old griffith that would still beat the bums whitaker was beating at welter. Napoles is underrated, whitaker is overrated.
Seeing the guy fight and the manner in which he won more than picks up the slack for his lack of names and tests on his ledger.

Yeah, never seeing the guy fight and just looking at his resume, you get little sense of how awesome he was, but that's the way it is with tons of fighters.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:13 PM   #47
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Why was Oscar prime and not Ray when he fought Duran? The weight manly and Oscar was ahead of Ray in 1997 compared to Ray in June of 1980.

The Pernell fight was at 147, Oscar's 3rd division where he won belts. Oscar had a WBO jr lightweight reign. then WBO lightweight reign when he fought Paez, Ruelas,Genaro Hernandez, Leija, then Chavez and after that Pernell. Now Ray was on his second title defense of his second title when he fought Duran. Pernell was 1997 for Oscar, so 5 years or almost after he turned professional. What was 5 years after Ray turned professional? He was retiring from the sport for the first time only to comeback and fight Kevin Howard. Oscar was a head of Ray when he fought Pernell. compared to when Ray fought Duran the first time.
Ray was naturally larger than Oscar so I don't see Ray staying at his natural weight of 147 determining who and what was prime. Ray had almost 30 fights at the same weight, whereas Oscar was constantly ad******g to different weights.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:13 PM   #48
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Seeing the guy fight and the manner in which he won more than picks up the slack for his lack of names and tests on his ledger.

Yeah, never seeing the guy fight and just looking at his resume, you get little sense of how awesome he was, but that's the way it is with tons of fighters.
I think it's that way with Floyd Mayweather.

The least impressive undefeated record I've seen on paper, right up there with Joe Calzaghe.

But if you see them fight, you KNOW they are great, because its obvious they are special fighters.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:16 PM   #49
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Ray was naturally larger than Oscar so I don't see Ray staying at his natural weight of 147 determining who and what was prime. Ray had almost 30 fights at the same weight, whereas Oscar was constantly ad******g to different weights.
Oscar fought his whole career as a man without a weight class.

Whenever he got comfortable, he was struggling to make weight and had to move up.

His best weight was really about 151. A bit small for 154, and just no way to healthily make 147 for an extended, lengthy period. I'm amazed he managed it as long as he did.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:19 PM   #50
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Oscar fought his whole career as a man without a weight class.

Whenever he got comfortable, he was struggling to make weight and had to move up.

His best weight was really about 151. A bit small for 154, and just no way to healthily make 147 for an extended, lengthy period. I'm amazed he managed it as long as he did.
He really only struggled with 130. 135-147 was nothing for him, he won FOTY at that weight and beat the crap out of everyone save Molina who stunk it out. They were talking of a Tszyu bout at 140 but Tszyu was stopped by Phillips and Oscar and Phillips moved up and Quartey beat Phillips and we had Oscar/Quartey

147 was where the money was after the Chavez bout so he moved up there and pursued Tito/Whitaker
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:19 PM   #51
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Ray was naturally larger than Oscar so I don't see Ray staying at his natural weight of 147 determining who and what was prime. Ray had almost 30 fights at the same weight, whereas Oscar was constantly ad******g to different weights.


That 'Green' SRL excuse is hilarious. Yes, green after running through half the division and an ATG in Benitez.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:19 PM   #52
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

He's judged about right by most of the posters on here who know their stuff.

More likely to be overstated a bit on the general than a lot of other fighters are, but i think a lot of that is because of the backlash against Duran's popularity or that of a much discussed active great like Mayweather.He's a more obvious go to fighter to counter or trol against that than someone from the 60s or earlier like Ortiz, Williams etc.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:23 PM   #53
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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He really only struggled with 130. 135-147 was nothing for him, he won FOTY at that weight and beat the crap out of everyone save Molina who stunk it out. They were talking of a Tszyu bout at 140 but Tszyu was stopped by Phillips and Oscar and Phillips moved up and Quartey beat Phillips and we had Oscar/Quartey

147 was where the money was after the Chavez bout so he moved up there and pursued Tito/Whitaker
Man, I talked to him before Ruelas and Trinidad, and he would argue that assertion on those days

Looked drawn and felt like crap.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:24 PM   #54
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

How on God's Green Earth could anybody call names like JLR (x2) Nelson, Chavez, McGirt (x2), Vasquez and Haugen as having a weak resume is beyond me and should be a banable offense.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:25 PM   #55
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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How on God's Green Earth could anybody call names like JLR (x2) Nelson, Chavez, McGirt (x2), Vasquez and Haugen as having a weak resume is beyond me and should be a banable offense.
I agree.

Greg Haugen and Buddy McGirt are good candidates for underrated fighters, not the guy who schooled them both.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:27 PM   #56
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Man, I talked to him before Ruelas and Trinidad, and he would argue that assertion on those days

Looked drawn and felt like crap.
Making weight is never a good time when youre the media darling doing promotion and no longer an amateur constantly on weight for fights.

He didn't show any ill effects in any of his fights, Oscar is just a baby sometimes
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:29 PM   #57
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

Hands I knew you'd catch that one.


I should use that more often
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:30 PM   #58
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Making weight is never a good time when youre the media darling doing promotion and no longer an amateur constantly on weight for fights.

He didn't show any ill effects in any of his fights, Oscar is just a baby sometimes
Fair enough. I'm a heavyweight, and weight maintenance hasn't ever been a big deal for me.

I guess the thought of needing to keep on weight like the lower fighters do just makes me balk. I can't imagine it.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:31 PM   #59
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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You come on here, call everybody Whitaker fought and beat bums, and then act like a tool and deny everything.

"What did Chavez do after Whitaker beat him! Don't mention Camacho or anyone else of note, because I know they're shit!"

Then you go on to call Biddy McGirt average.
****ing hell, do your homework. You clearly don't know what you're on about.
Im sure you've called everyone of mayweathers opponents a bum.

I would probably pick whitaker to beat somone like carlos ortiz head to head, but ortiz beat 6 hall of famers and 10 other very good fighters. Kind of hard to say whitaker accomplished more.

If whitaker fans want to cry everytime he was robbed, why cant i say pacquiao absoletely tooled timothy bradley, a welterweight champ that was naturally 30 pounds bigger than pac.

I think both duran and whitaker get romanticed on this board by the way. Jose Napoles on the other hand is entirely dismissed. Wouldnt be shocked at all if napoles handed both of them thier ass.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:35 PM   #60
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Default Re: is Pernel Whitaker Overrated?

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Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
Seeing the guy fight and the manner in which he won more than picks up the slack for his lack of names and tests on his ledger.

Yeah, never seeing the guy fight and just looking at his resume, you get little sense of how awesome he was, but that's the way it is with tons of fighters.
Actually ive seen every one of whitakers relevant fights from 1989-1997, all of them, nice to see you get emotional about it, should i give you a tissue paper?

Once mayweather and pac retire, then they will be appreciated, when whitaker actually fought, people really didnt care about him.
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