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Old 11-02-2012, 02:53 AM   #31
Bollox
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
"I'm gonna break every bone in Tommy Hearns body."

"Sounds like you have a personal vendetta against Tommy, Marvin?"

"...not really."
typical Marvin

The closest he came to giving Hearns a bit of respect was after the fight..."yeah, he can hit a bit"

He used to call Hearns 'bug eyes"
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:52 AM   #32
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

First, Hagler did not wobble... I have to chuckle when you say this was a wil brawl. you couldn`t know that i trained my son at Goody Petronelli`s for many years and was a very close friend of Goody`s. And, the way Hagler MADE Hearns fight, was a carefully prepared plan that Hagler and Goody worked at for months. Goody said he wanted Marving to force Hearns to stand and fight because they KNEW Hearns could not hold up under Haglers barrage... Hagler afraid to fight Hearns again????????????????????? He pummels Hearns into a quivering wreck Hearns has to be carried cradled in his handlers arms to his corner and Hagler`s afraid ??Hearns had only one shot of winning, a lucky punch. he shot it, Hagler walked through it, case closed. Hearns was stopped by Barkley for christs sakes ! Now you give him a good shot against MMH every time out ? And I loved the `Hitman`, a blistering puncher who always fought like a warrior. But, he would lose to Hagler each and every time because he wasn`t strong enough to keep Hagler off him, and Haglers chin allows Hagler to wade through the Hearns firestorm, and get hearns out. Where as Hagler could handle what Hearns dished out, Hearns could not... And, while you were watching it on your TV ( I too have watched it many times) did you happen to notice how Hagler tore Hearns up inside ?? Hard body shots, that took Hearns legs away...There was an interview Hagler had given, at some point after the fight. He said` Tommy was woofin all through the camp, that I was gonna get in 3 rds, I said, no your gonna GET it in 3 rds` ...
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:17 AM   #33
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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First, Hagler did not wobble... I have to chuckle when you say this was a wil brawl. you couldn`t know that i trained my son at Goody Petronelli`s for many years and was a very close friend of Goody`s. And, the way Hagler MADE Hearns fight, was a carefully prepared plan that Hagler and Goody worked at for months. Goody said he wanted Marving to force Hearns to stand and fight because they KNEW Hearns could not hold up under Haglers barrage... Hagler afraid to fight Hearns again????????????????????? He pummels Hearns into a quivering wreck Hearns has to be carried cradled in his handlers arms to his corner and Hagler`s afraid ??Hearns had only one shot of winning, a lucky punch. he shot it, Hagler walked through it, case closed. Hearns was stopped by Barkley for christs sakes ! Now you give him a good shot against MMH every time out ? And I loved the `Hitman`, a blistering puncher who always fought like a warrior. But, he would lose to Hagler each and every time because he wasn`t strong enough to keep Hagler off him, and Haglers chin allows Hagler to wade through the Hearns firestorm, and get hearns out. Where as Hagler could handle what Hearns dished out, Hearns could not... And, while you were watching it on your TV ( I too have watched it many times) did you happen to notice how Hagler tore Hearns up inside ?? Hard body shots, that took Hearns legs away...There was an interview Hagler had given, at some point after the fight. He said` Tommy was woofin all through the camp, that I was gonna get in 3 rds, I said, no your gonna GET it in 3 rds` ...
Thanks, Wayne!!Great job. Absolutely perfect post!!
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:20 PM   #34
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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...the way Hagler MADE Hearns fight, was a carefully prepared plan that Hagler and Goody worked at for months. Goody said he wanted Marving to force Hearns to stand and fight because they KNEW Hearns could not hold up under Haglers barrage...
This.

Asked after the fight if he was hurt by Hearns in the first, Marvin smiled and said "nah, it just made me madder." But I do think it briefly dazed him. Very briefly. Manny Steward said years later Hagler told him that right by Hearns was the hardest anyone ever hit him. I believe it. But Marvin had such an incredible chin, I think it would have taken several of those to actually put him on the canvas, let alone KO him. And since Marvin was fighting a very aggressive, pressure style that day, and doing a lot of damage himself, it wasn't going to happen. Broken hand or not, they could have fought 10 times, and Marvin may have won all 10.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:13 PM   #35
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Really? Based on what evidence? No question it was a helluva shot, but Hagler was hit cleanly by big punchers before and after he fought Hearns, and besides never being knocked out, the only knockdown Hagler suffered was when he was off balance coming in against Roldan. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate any punch that Tommy WOULD HAVE landed, would have caused Hagler to be "counted out".
"Really?" Yes.

"Based on what evidence?" My intuition. I'm a genius.

Ever hit a perfect golf shot and hear that click?

That is what that Hearns missile was. Perfect.

Hagler loses consciousness for probably 4-6 seconds, then spends
another 4-6 seconds getting his faculties together while beginning the struggle to rise.

Counted out, dude! Deal with it.

Cheers.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:15 PM   #36
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Yep right ! Never was actually floored and Hearns Ko`s him. Perfect !
Excellent!

Most happy you agree!

Yours truly,

Yance
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:37 PM   #37
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Originally Posted by yancey View Post
"Really?" Yes.

"Based on what evidence?" My intuition. I'm a genius.

Ever hit a perfect golf shot and hear that click?

That is what that Hearns missile was. Perfect.

Hagler loses consciousness for probably 4-6 seconds, then spends
another 4-6 seconds getting his faculties together while beginning the struggle to rise.

Counted out, dude! Deal with it.

Cheers.
Yup, utter irrefutable evidence. Thank yourself you're not a lawyer
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:38 PM   #38
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Originally Posted by Waynegrade View Post
First, Hagler did not wobble... I have to chuckle when you say this was a wil brawl. you couldn`t know that i trained my son at Goody Petronelli`s for many years and was a very close friend of Goody`s. And, the way Hagler MADE Hearns fight, was a carefully prepared plan that Hagler and Goody worked at for months. Goody said he wanted Marving to force Hearns to stand and fight because they KNEW Hearns could not hold up under Haglers barrage... Hagler afraid to fight Hearns again????????????????????? He pummels Hearns into a quivering wreck Hearns has to be carried cradled in his handlers arms to his corner and Hagler`s afraid ??Hearns had only one shot of winning, a lucky punch. he shot it, Hagler walked through it, case closed. Hearns was stopped by Barkley for christs sakes ! Now you give him a good shot against MMH every time out ? And I loved the `Hitman`, a blistering puncher who always fought like a warrior. But, he would lose to Hagler each and every time because he wasn`t strong enough to keep Hagler off him, and Haglers chin allows Hagler to wade through the Hearns firestorm, and get hearns out. Where as Hagler could handle what Hearns dished out, Hearns could not... And, while you were watching it on your TV ( I too have watched it many times) did you happen to notice how Hagler tore Hearns up inside ?? Hard body shots, that took Hearns legs away...There was an interview Hagler had given, at some point after the fight. He said` Tommy was woofin all through the camp, that I was gonna get in 3 rds, I said, no your gonna GET it in 3 rds` ...
Marvin was hurt. There is doubt- his right leg gave out same thing. Watch the fight where Al Michaels says something like 10 seconds in the fight "Hearns hits him with an uppercut" and at that exact point Hearns lands a punch sort of half hook/half uppercut that hits Marvin on the side of the head. Marvin's right leg went down and he went back, I think Hearns threw a left hook and missed. Marvin sort of holds on and then backs off and you can see him sort of swipe where he was hit with his glove as he bounces around on his legs a little to get them back, then came back. About a 10 second time after that punch landed. It is no insult to be hurt, but he was. The fact is saying Hearns cannot knock out Marvin when it is obvious he hurt him,, proves he could beat Marvin had he not broken his hand. I think.

Emanuel Steward's plan was they knew Marvin would come out smoking (as Marvin said he would) but they didn't know that much. But they thought he would come out hard and he would slow down by round 5 and start to pick him apart and win the fight by TKO, and that is plausible.

About Goody's gym. I think it is great you went to their gym, and I always liked Goody and Pat's personalities. Great guys and they loved boxing, but that doesn't mean Hagler did not wobble. and the fact was you said they had a plan, if it was so easy to knock out Hearns and win well then why did they need this "carefully worked out plan for months" like you said. I do find it interesting but I knew Marvin had a plan like that. Emanuel Steward said Marvin fought the perfect fight. Tucked his chin down and threw punches and stayed close.

And actually that is what I said orginally. It took Hagler to fight that style and put his mental and physical all into the fight, and he did not want the fight again because he knew he would have to have that same tactic and energy again and would have to take the right hand again to get the win. He might have, but you could tell he didn't want to. Actually for whatever reasons I don't think Marvin had the full motivation to fight at all anyone after Hearns like he did before. He proved something in his own mind.

Yes I give Hearns a good shot at beating Marvin in a rematch. The fight is slower and Marvin wobbled with the first hard punch Tommy threw.. Marvin was great no doubt, but Hearns hit him easily and he did break his hand. It is a shame because I think he could have knocked him out or at least got Marvin to go into a shell.
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:56 PM   #39
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

Hearns was too fragile to beat Hagler. Marvin took everything he had then game him a ****load in return. We all know the result

Long after the fight the 'they massaged my legs before the fight" garbage was being put forth as a probable reason for Hearns being over and done with so early in the fight. Me thinks old Marvin had quite a bit to do with it
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:06 PM   #40
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Hearns was too fragile to beat Hagler. Marvin took everything he had then game him a ****load in return. We all know the result

Long after the fight the 'they massaged my legs before the fight" garbage was being put forth as a probable reason for Hearns being over and done with so early in the fight. Me thinks old Marvin had quite a bit to do with it
I always believe that message thing was nonsense.. Why would that happen in his biggest fight and not for a guy like Doug Dewitt or Minchillo when he won.
But I still think the fact Hearns hurt him with the first solid punch he threw and the fact Marvin swelled up and you could see Tommy could hit him easily. Had the fight been slowed down Tommy could have gotten a mid rounds TKO. You can see that. But Tommy would have to fight with his jab and slow the fight and pick up apart using his jab to the body and head. I always think Tommy could beat Marvin. I think Tommy was a slightly greater fighter than Marvin was. He fought better guys like Benitez and Cuevas and won his first titles from them, and later beat Virgil Hill I think his career has more versatility and obviously weights.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:17 PM   #41
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

Have to disagree. Bu the time the fight slowed down Hearns was incapable of boxing effectively and that was all Hagler's doing. It was the perfect fight strategy for Hearns and if they fought again Marvin would simply have forced Hearns to fight that type of fight all over again with the exact same result

I very much doubt Hagler would have had top level success at 175 but since he was a bona fide middleweight fighter then this should not be held against him. If Hearns was 5'9 there's no way he would have gone up and succeeded, either
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:38 PM   #42
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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I always believe that message thing was nonsense.. Why would that happen in his biggest fight and not for a guy like Doug Dewitt or Minchillo when he won.
But I still think the fact Hearns hurt him with the first solid punch he threw and the fact Marvin swelled up and you could see Tommy could hit him easily. Had the fight been slowed down Tommy could have gotten a mid rounds TKO. You can see that. But Tommy would have to fight with his jab and slow the fight and pick up apart using his jab to the body and head. I always think Tommy could beat Marvin. I think Tommy was a slightly greater fighter than Marvin was. He fought better guys like Benitez and Cuevas and won his first titles from them, and later beat Virgil Hill I think his career has more versatility and obviously weights.
Marvins swelled up ? Wow, there`s a revelation !! Against `Bad` Bennie Briscoe, Hagler`s whole eyebrow was split, early on. Did he panic, quit or roll over, no ! He boxed Brisco`e ears off while managing to avoid Bennie`s attempt at butting. My friend, what you fail to get, is that MMH was a nail tough warrior who overcame any adversity and come back to win. Hearns was not that guy, not against Hagler. Mugabi had Hagler a lot more swollen than hearns did ( yes,I did watch it on TV !) And Hagler outmanned him to win. You refer to Cuevas, Hill and Benitez. Where is the relevance ??? Those guys couldn`t crack nor take one anywhere near Hagler. Styles make fights, and Hagler KO`s Hearns every single time. As for Goody working with Hagler for moths preparing for Hearns, wake up ! Thats what good trainers do with their fighters . Hearns a blown up welter, is going to starch a guy who has NEVER been floored ??? As for Hagler being afraid, that comment is so unintelligent I can`t even respond to it... That guy feared NO ONE !!Look, Hearns chin and frail body would fail him each and every time he fought Hagler. I don`t know of any experts who ever thought that Hagler `lucked` out in that fight and that he should duck a rematch ...
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:40 PM   #43
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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I always believe that message thing was nonsense.. Why would that happen in his biggest fight and not for a guy like Doug Dewitt or Minchillo when he won.
But I still think the fact Hearns hurt him with the first solid punch he threw and the fact Marvin swelled up and you could see Tommy could hit him easily. Had the fight been slowed down Tommy could have gotten a mid rounds TKO. You can see that. But Tommy would have to fight with his jab and slow the fight and pick up apart using his jab to the body and head. I always think Tommy could beat Marvin. I think Tommy was a slightly greater fighter than Marvin was. He fought better guys like Benitez and Cuevas and won his first titles from them, and later beat Virgil Hill I think his career has more versatility and obviously weights.
Always thought Tommy could beat Marvin ?? You need to go to boxrec and check the result. It looks like this, Marvelous Marvin Hagler KO 3 Thoms Hearns... Sorry to burst your bubble...
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:42 PM   #44
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Originally Posted by Bollox View Post
Hearns was too fragile to beat Hagler. Marvin took everything he had then game him a ****load in return. We all know the result

Long after the fight the 'they massaged my legs before the fight" garbage was being put forth as a probable reason for Hearns being over and done with so early in the fight. Me thinks old Marvin had quite a bit to do with it
Come on, we all know that if it wasn`t for the ` massage`, Hearns KO`s him in the 4th ...
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:01 PM   #45
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Marvins swelled up ? Wow, there`s a revelation !! Against `Bad` Bennie Briscoe, Hagler`s whole eyebrow was split, early on. Did he panic, quit or roll over, no ! He boxed Brisco`e ears off while managing to avoid Bennie`s attempt at butting. My friend, what you fail to get, is that MMH was a nail tough warrior who overcame any adversity and come back to win. Hearns was not that guy, not against Hagler. Mugabi had Hagler a lot more swollen than hearns did ( yes,I did watch it on TV !) And Hagler outmanned him to win. You refer to Cuevas, Hill and Benitez. Where is the relevance ??? Those guys couldn`t crack nor take one anywhere near Hagler. Styles make fights, and Hagler KO`s Hearns every single time. As for Goody working with Hagler for moths preparing for Hearns, wake up ! Thats what good trainers do with their fighters . Hearns a blown up welter, is going to starch a guy who has NEVER been floored ??? As for Hagler being afraid, that comment is so unintelligent I can`t even respond to it... That guy feared NO ONE !!Look, Hearns chin and frail body would fail him each and every time he fought Hagler. I don`t know of any experts who ever thought that Hagler `lucked` out in that fight and that he should duck a rematch ...
It wasn't about Hearns chin it was about Hearns right hand in the rematch. Tommy's chin was not weak. Caveman Lee was stopped quickly and Tommy took many punches from Marvin and stayed up to the point Marvin looked weary by round 3. You will say Marvin was not weary, but he is lucky Hearns was ready to go in round 3 because Marvin was very tired. But that was Marvin's gamble. But the second fight would have been a slower pace and the slower the better for Tommy.
Marvin fought a great fight, but he fought that urgent way because he knew if the fight was slowed Tommy picked him apart. He knew it. I mentioned Cuevas,Benitez and Hill because I was saying Hearns is slightly greater than Marvin who I think is top 25 ATG. Why I said Tommy was greater is because styles make fights and Tommy I think beat greater guys around many more weights, but Marvin had a great style for him if he fought that way. I do not for a second think Marvin beats him everytime. Not when Tommy first solid punch hurt Marvin, and it did.
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