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Old 11-02-2012, 09:03 PM   #46
MAG1965
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Always thought Tommy could beat Marvin ?? You need to go to boxrec and check the result. It looks like this, Marvelous Marvin Hagler KO 3 Thoms Hearns... Sorry to burst your bubble...
the result does not have anything to do with what happens in the fight. Roldan went 10 with Hagler, but didn't hurt him regardless of the knockdown. Marvin had to fight the fight of his life to beat Hearns and he did. Marvin said it himself " I had to fight like a challenger to win". The fact that Marvin was inactive for a year and talked about retirement soon after was not a fluke. He said himself in the interview with Bernstein "this is one of my toughest fights".
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:06 PM   #47
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Have to disagree. Bu the time the fight slowed down Hearns was incapable of boxing effectively and that was all Hagler's doing. It was the perfect fight strategy for Hearns and if they fought again Marvin would simply have forced Hearns to fight that type of fight all over again with the exact same result

I very much doubt Hagler would have had top level success at 175 but since he was a bona fide middleweight fighter then this should not be held against him. If Hearns was 5'9 there's no way he would have gone up and succeeded, either
No, Steward did not anticipate Marvin coming out that fired up. But that takes a lot of mental energy to come out like that. Marvin said it himself, and that motivation had a lot to do with Hearns and Hagler going on a many city tour and getting angry with each other about words spoken and airplanes used and all that. In the rematch Marvin would have come out slower and it would have been the fight we thought the first one would have been. No one anticipated that pace.

Hearns was smaller boned 175 pound fighter. Look at him with Hill and Andries. He never looked big except in the shoulders. He was 6-1, and Marvin similar to Ray almost 5-10.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:11 PM   #48
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

I missed this thread. Marvin took the best Hearns right hand Hearns could muster. Now debating whether or not Hearns lost power from 147/54 to 160 is debateable.

Nothing after Duran nor after Hagler lead me to believe that the BRH of Hearns would have had any difference on a fight outcome.

Now having Hagler drain down to 154 is a completely out there fight better reserved for create a fighters on fight night. Hags is a middle ATG and Hearns just couldn't hurt him. Simple as.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:15 PM   #49
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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I missed this thread. Marvin took the best Hearns right hand Hearns could muster. Now debating whether or not Hearns lost power from 147/54 to 160 is debateable.

Nothing after Duran nor after Hagler lead me to believe that the BRH of Hearns would have had any difference on a fight outcome.

Now having Hagler drain down to 154 is a completely out there fight better reserved for create a fighters on fight night. Hags is a middle ATG and Hearns just couldn't hurt him. Simple as.
I see your points, but Hearns did hurt Hagler. About 10 seconds into the fight. Hearns was against the ropes and he hit Hagler with a uppercut,cross sort of and Hagler's right leg dipped and he backed off. An unusual punch for Hearns to land against the ropes. That is why I think Hearns could hurt Hagler. He hurt him against the ropes, but had he had a full leverage punch in ring center I think Hagler goes down. Maybe not out, but down.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:27 PM   #50
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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I see your points, but Hearns did hurt Hagler. About 10 seconds into the fight. Hearns was against the ropes and he hit Hagler with a uppercut,cross sort of and Hagler's right leg dipped and he backed off. An unusual punch for Hearns to land against the ropes. That is why I think Hearns could hurt Hagler. He hurt him against the ropes, but had he had a full leverage punch in ring center I think Hagler goes down. Maybe not out, but down.
That's because Hearns had to WHIP the right upper/hook to account for Hagler's SP stance. it's a lot harder to land a crushing overhand right on an SP than it is an ORTHO like Duran. The physics of it all make it a hard task due to the angle and leverage.

Hearns could hurt Hagler obviously but it would have never been enough IMO due to Hagler's fundamentals, his stance, and his strength inside.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:31 PM   #51
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

Hagler isn't a stoppable fighter at 160 lbs.

Unless...
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:33 PM   #52
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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That's because Hearns had to WHIP the right upper/hook to account for Hagler's SP stance. it's a lot harder to land a crushing overhand right on an SP than it is an ORTHO like Duran. The physics of it all make it a hard task due to the angle and leverage.

Hearns could hurt Hagler obviously but it would have never been enough IMO due to Hagler's fundamentals, his stance, and his strength inside.
That is why I think a slower pace means Hearns can step over and land the right cross easier rather than punch straight at Marvin, which would be easier to break a hand with Marvin's head being in the position and tucked in. But the slower pace would have favored Tommy and since he did hurt him with that first hard punch, it shows that is would be likely to happen. I think Hearns should have fought a slower pace and picked Marvin apart with his jab, and actually Hearns had many punches for Hagler. one which worked was a counter left when Hagler dipped down, and the left hook to the body worked great, which in the later rounds would make Marvin bend to avoid it and Hearns could then step over and land the right cross. Either way. eventually Marvin would have gone orthodox to get more power with his right hand and been hit with the right cross. But the slower pace means Marvin gets picked apart. That was always my point. #1- Hearns could hurt Hagler, and #2 Marvin could never fight that pace again in the same way.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:34 PM   #53
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Hagler isn't a stoppable fighter at 160 lbs.

Unless...
You're playing fight night?

I KO'd him with an 89 score ***y Serg the other week.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:34 PM   #54
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Hagler isn't a stoppable fighter at 160 lbs.

Unless...
maybe not stoppable by knockout, but by TKO was possible. That is how I could see Hearns stop him.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:37 PM   #55
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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That is why I think a slower pace means Hearns can step over and land the right cross easier rather than punch straight at Marvin, which would be easier to break a hand with Marvin's head being in the position and tucked in. But the slower pace would have favored Tommy and since he did hurt him with that first hard punch, it shows that is would be likely to happen. I think Hearns should have fought a slower pace and picked Marvin apart with his jab, and actually Hearns had many punches for Hagler. one which worked was a counter left when Hagler dipped down, and the left hook to the body worked great, which in the later rounds would make Marvin bend to avoid it and Hearns could then step over and land the right cross. Either way. eventually Marvin would have gone orthodox to get more power with his right hand and been hit with the right cross. But the slower pace means Marvin gets picked apart. That was always my point. #1- Hearns could hurt Hagler, and #2 Marvin could never fight that pace again in the same way.
The Hearns that stopped Duran would have been stopped all the same. He came out fired up all the same vs Hagler, when stopping Duran, but this time, he got KO'd himself

Last edited by turbotime; 11-02-2012 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:49 PM   #56
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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You're playing fight night?

I KO'd him with an 89 score ***y Serg the other week.
Haven't played video games in years.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:54 PM   #57
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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The Hearns that stopped Duran would have been stopped all the same. He came out fired up all the same vs Hagler, when stopping Duran, but this time, he got KO'd himself
Well he was a little different with Duran. He and Duran were actual nice to each other and touched gloves. He and Hagler had some bad feelings, which is odd because now Hagler and Hearns seem to like each other. I always thought the way Hearns would beat Hagler is by picking him apart with the jab and the fight ending with cuts or swelling.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:55 PM   #58
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post
I see your points, but Hearns did hurt Hagler. About 10 seconds into the fight. Hearns was against the ropes and he hit Hagler with a uppercut,cross sort of and Hagler's right leg dipped and he backed off. An unusual punch for Hearns to land against the ropes. That is why I think Hearns could hurt Hagler. He hurt him against the ropes, but had he had a full leverage punch in ring center I think Hagler goes down. Maybe not out, but down.
No, no,no don`t back down now. You said if tommy had hit Marving with a good right hand, he could knock him out...
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:56 PM   #59
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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The Hearns that stopped Duran would have been stopped all the same. He came out fired up all the same vs Hagler, when stopping Duran, but this time, he got KO'd himself
Agreed ! It wasn`t like Hearns couldn`t be stopped, he did more than once...
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:58 PM   #60
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Well he was a little different with Duran. He and Duran were actual nice to each other and touched gloves. He and Hagler had some bad feelings, which is odd because now Hagler and Hearns seem to like each other. I always thought the way Hearns would beat Hagler is by picking him apart with the jab and the fight ending with cuts or swelling.
Because you touch gloves doesn't mean alot my man. See Mosley/Stone for reference. They actually laugh Then Mosley knocks him zombie.


Saying the right hand that hurt Duran would have hurt Hags is a stretch. It's like we're losing perception of weight classes here.
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