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Old 11-02-2012, 09:59 PM   #61
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Old 11-02-2012, 09:59 PM   #62
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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the result does not have anything to do with what happens in the fight. Roldan went 10 with Hagler, but didn't hurt him regardless of the knockdown. Marvin had to fight the fight of his life to beat Hearns and he did. Marvin said it himself " I had to fight like a challenger to win". The fact that Marvin was inactive for a year and talked about retirement soon after was not a fluke. He said himself in the interview with Bernstein "this is one of my toughest fights".
You seem to be missing the fact that Hearns DID hit Hagler. And when Hagler hit Hearns, by the 3rd, Tommy found a sweet spot on the canvas. Did you ever see anything in Marvin`s career 9 before or after) that leads you to believe that a blown up welter, knocks out a guy who was NEVER stopped ?
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:01 PM   #63
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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No, Steward did not anticipate Marvin coming out that fired up. But that takes a lot of mental energy to come out like that. Marvin said it himself, and that motivation had a lot to do with Hearns and Hagler going on a many city tour and getting angry with each other about words spoken and airplanes used and all that. In the rematch Marvin would have come out slower and it would have been the fight we thought the first one would have been. No one anticipated that pace.

Hearns was smaller boned 175 pound fighter. Look at him with Hill and Andries. He never looked big except in the shoulders. He was 6-1, and Marvin similar to Ray almost 5-10.
Do you think Steward thought Hagler was going to come out, and casually give Hearns a boxing lesson ?? Tommy talked the talk, Marvin walked the walk.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:03 PM   #64
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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You seem to be missing the fact that Hearns DID hit Hagler. And when Hagler hit Hearns, by the 3rd, Tommy found a sweet spot on the canvas. Did you ever see anything in Marvin`s career 9 before or after) that leads you to believe that a blown up welter, knocks out a guy who was NEVER stopped ?
Yes, and I saw Tommy hit and hurt Marvin. It took the fight of Marvin's life to fight that way and get him to the mental and physical point he fought that night. Marvin never was the same again. Marvin was a great fighter, but he had to make that fight a wild swinging affair to win it. He took the technique out of the fight because he knew if there was a slower pace with boxing technique Hearns would win. It was a good tactic.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:05 PM   #65
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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It wasn't about Hearns chin it was about Hearns right hand in the rematch. Tommy's chin was not weak. Caveman Lee was stopped quickly and Tommy took many punches from Marvin and stayed up to the point Marvin looked weary by round 3. You will say Marvin was not weary, but he is lucky Hearns was ready to go in round 3 because Marvin was very tired. But that was Marvin's gamble. But the second fight would have been a slower pace and the slower the better for Tommy.
Marvin fought a great fight, but he fought that urgent way because he knew if the fight was slowed Tommy picked him apart. He knew it. I mentioned Cuevas,Benitez and Hill because I was saying Hearns is slightly greater than Marvin who I think is top 25 ATG. Why I said Tommy was greater is because styles make fights and Tommy I think beat greater guys around many more weights, but Marvin had a great style for him if he fought that way. I do not for a second think Marvin beats him everytime. Not when Tommy first solid punch hurt Marvin, and it did.
Wow you just don`t get it Hearns hit Hagler, good shot. Hagler doesn`t go away, takes it to him inside. Then when he hurts Hearns he finishes him. It`s not about who lands a good shot, it`s about who lands their shot and wins... I don`t know af anyone who thought that Hagler got `lucky` to survive that fight.Hearns did not have a great chin. SRL,Barkley, Hagler and stung on many occasions and yes `wobbled` ...
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:07 PM   #66
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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It wasn't about Hearns chin it was about Hearns right hand in the rematch. Tommy's chin was not weak. Caveman Lee was stopped quickly and Tommy took many punches from Marvin and stayed up to the point Marvin looked weary by round 3. You will say Marvin was not weary, but he is lucky Hearns was ready to go in round 3 because Marvin was very tired. But that was Marvin's gamble. But the second fight would have been a slower pace and the slower the better for Tommy.
Marvin fought a great fight, but he fought that urgent way because he knew if the fight was slowed Tommy picked him apart. He knew it. I mentioned Cuevas,Benitez and Hill because I was saying Hearns is slightly greater than Marvin who I think is top 25 ATG. Why I said Tommy was greater is because styles make fights and Tommy I think beat greater guys around many more weights, but Marvin had a great style for him if he fought that way. I do not for a second think Marvin beats him everytime. Not when Tommy first solid punch hurt Marvin, and it did.
Besides, your talking about your `hypothetical` versus reality... Reality states, Hagler Ko`d Hearns...
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:09 PM   #67
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Because you touch gloves doesn't mean alot my man. See Mosley/Stone for reference. They actually laugh Then Mosley knocks him zombie.


Saying the right hand that hurt Duran would have hurt Hags is a stretch. It's like we're losing perception of weight classes here.
Finally some sense...
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:09 PM   #68
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Do you think Steward thought Hagler was going to come out, and casually give Hearns a boxing lesson ?? Tommy talked the talk, Marvin walked the walk.
I think Emanuel thought Marvin would come out aggressive. But Steward didn't think Marvin would come out like that. Marvin put it all on the line. A great fighter, but the fact was he was never the same again and his career didn't last much longer, and the Hearns fight was his last fight being active. Fighting Hamsho in Oct of 1984 then Roldan before that.. He fought Mugabi a little short of a year after that and Leonard over a year after Mugabi.
Marvin walked the walk? Sure he won the fight so he has bragging rights. That is like saying against Leonard Marvin talked the talk and Ray walked the walk. Sounds good. The fact is and I have always said this. Marvin is great. Great chin and southpaw and skills,but he never took the chance to test his skills beyond his comfort zone like his fellow contempory greats Hearns or Duran or Leonard.

Spinks wanted him and he never moved up, but he got upset when the the lighter guys did not jump at the chance to fight him, Marvin saying he would cut off his pinkie for a million dollars when Tommy did not fight him in 1982 after he hurt his finger. I am not sure how much he would have earned fighting Spinks, but it would have been for 5-10 million. So on that fact he talked but didn't walk.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:13 PM   #69
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Because you touch gloves doesn't mean alot my man. See Mosley/Stone for reference. They actually laugh Then Mosley knocks him zombie.


Saying the right hand that hurt Duran would have hurt Hags is a stretch. It's like we're losing perception of weight classes here.
The not touching gloves has significance since Duran/Hearns was fought at a slower pace. They did not brawl, except for moments early when they started to open up and Tommy then hurt Duran and Duran slowed more. Ray's whole tactic with Marvin was to butter him up and be friends with him, so Hagler would not go into him like he did Hearns, and it worked. The Adrian Stone match with Mosley was not the same. Stone was not in Mosley's class. So the fights takes the same path regardless of smiling or not.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:14 PM   #70
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

Marvellous Marvin Hagler Says He Can Still Feel The Punches Tommy Hearns Hit Him With - Over 25 Years Later!

By James Slater



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Old 11-02-2012, 10:15 PM   #71
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Besides, your talking about your `hypothetical` versus reality... Reality states, Hagler Ko`d Hearns...
well when you say Hagler would beat Hearns everytime he fights him that is hypothetical. And am bringing up what I think are facts to show that a slower pace fight is different, and Hagler could not have put up that fast pace in another fight. He very well might have won the rematch, but he would not win it at that pace and not in round 3.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:18 PM   #72
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

You just don`t have a clue. Hagler was at best 5`9``. Then he was ducked two years while he was the #1 ranked middleweight contender. Corro ducks him, Antunoufermo finally fighst him, Hagler gets jobbed. So the ducking continues, while Antuofermo fights and loses to Minter. Finally Hagler has to go to Minters back yard and pummels hi en route to a brutal stoppage. Defends his title for almost 7 yrs and gets jobbed again against SRL. He never looked at moving up in weight because he was short for a middle, and he weight 158 since the amateurs. He took on EVERYONE in his division, including some beasts before he won the title. Never dropped ( Roldan pulled his head down) never stopped, more defenses than anyone at middle besides Monzon. Yep, he was a pretender who def. didn`t walk the walk...
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:20 PM   #73
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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well when you say Hagler would beat Hearns everytime he fights him that is hypothetical. And am bringing up what I think are facts to show that a slower pace fight is different, and Hagler could not have put up that fast pace in another fight. He very well might have won the rematch, but he would not win it at that pace and not in round 3.
Problem is your trying to `invent` a scenario in which Hearns `mythically` beats Hagler. You know the old saying in boxing right ? When a fighter Ko`s another fighter (convincingly) he does it even quicker in the rematch... That totally applies here...Hearns for all his talents ( and there were many) his chin and durability lead him to trouble over 147. Actually even at 147 with SRL. Comparison, I pick Hearns over Mayweather in 2 rds ! Why ? hearns speed firepower and SIZE are too much for even a great fighter like PBF to overcome... Hagler`s naturally bigger stronger frame and chin are just to tough an obstacle for Tommy to overcome ...
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:26 PM   #74
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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Problem is your trying to `invent` a scenario in which Hearns `mythically` beats Hagler. You know the old saying in boxing right ? When a fighter Ko`s another fighter (convincingly) he does it even quicker in the rematch... That totally applies here...
how does that apply when the fighter who won had to fight the fight of his life mentally and physically to win? Marvin did not fight his standard fight which then yes, you could have applied that saying to.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:34 PM   #75
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Default Re: Hearns right on Hagler instead of Duran

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You just don`t have a clue. Hagler was at best 5`9``. Then he was ducked two years while he was the #1 ranked middleweight contender. Corro ducks him, Antunoufermo finally fighst him, Hagler gets jobbed. So the ducking continues, while Antuofermo fights and loses to Minter. Finally Hagler has to go to Minters back yard and pummels hi en route to a brutal stoppage. Defends his title for almost 7 yrs and gets jobbed again against SRL. He never looked at moving up in weight because he was short for a middle, and he weight 158 since the amateurs. He took on EVERYONE in his division, including some beasts before he won the title. Never dropped ( Roldan pulled his head down) never stopped, more defenses than anyone at middle besides Monzon. Yep, he was a pretender who def. didn`t walk the walk...
I didn't mention the walk the walk comment. You said Hearns talked the talk and Hagler walked the walk, but when it comes to careers. Hearns moved up and walked the walk and took on big challengers more than Hagler did in his own comfort zone. Marvin was great and dominant and all that, but that is one thing he didn't do is move up. He did not do with Spinks what Hearns,Leonard, Duran all did with him, Move up and fight the guy in the higher division.

I am just comparing Hagler and Hearns and the walking the walk comment. Since regardless of Antuofermo or Minter or his middleweight reign, Marvin spoke about Hearns saying he wouldn't fight because of his baby pinkie back in 1982-the year Hearns later beat WIlfred Benitez for the 154 pound title. Marvin's comments were "he was gonna earn two millions dollars but he turned it down because of his little baby pinkie. Marvin said he would cut his pinkie off for two million dollars. Many people remember that comment because then Spinks would have given him probably 10 million and he didn't do it. Yet Hearns is supposed to compromise himself for 2 because that is a fight Marvin wanted, and Spinks he did not for more. And let me be honest, I am a Hagler fan. I always rate him as the best middleweight ever. A great fighter, but compared to Hearns is what I am talking and walking the walk. I don't think anyone whoever fought Hearns could say Hearns did anything less than walking the walk.
To me moving up in weight adds to a fighters legacy if he can show the top rated skills at higher weights. That is why Spinks to me was rated so high. He outboxed Holmes and beat him 2 times. That helped his legacy more than most things he did at 175
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