Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II?

Russell · 03-28-2008, 10:10 AM

Eh?

jaywilton · 03-28-2008, 10:40 AM

The draw for Vito was cool with me in their first fight;he fought one of the gutsiest fights I've seen to hang in there;I began to think Hagler was overrated beginning with Vito I-and I think claims that Hagler could've gotten Duran out of there(outside of a lucky shot)are stretching it.

JohnPaul Futbol · 03-28-2008, 12:20 PM

I've watched the first fight about 5 times, no way that was a draw. Hagler clearly won that fight.

sthomas · 03-28-2008, 01:33 PM

I watched #I on live TV way back when. Never watched it again yet. @ the time Haglar was definately the stronger of the two but Vito kept on coming back and it was very close in my opinion and thought the draw was fair.

Sonny Carson · 03-28-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnPaul Futbol

I've watched the first fight about 5 times, no way that was a draw. Hagler clearly won that fight.

Exactly there's no way in hell that was a draw. There are some idiots on this site.

salsanchezfan · 03-28-2008, 03:13 PM

I agree that Hagler won, but it wasn't by a lot. Anyone claiming it to be some sort of terribly obvious thing is mistaken or hasn't seen it. Hagler DID fade noticeably in the second half of the fight, and Vito stole some rounds. I had Hagler by two points, and that's a close fight.

As to fight number two, Vito had been floored by Mauricio Aldana in the fight just before that, and suddenly seemed to look his age, according to what I've read (haven't seen that fight). That idea seemed reinforced when Hagler took him on the second time. I think the knockdown Hagker scored there was as much a balance issue for Vito as being hurt; the punch landed on his forehead, if memory serves, and he was squared up against Hagler I think. I'll have to watch it again.

Vito just seemed more passive and out of synch, and Marvin sliced him up, forcing a stoppage.

Which goes to show you, when Antuofermo didn't bleed, he could be difficult to stay with.

Russell · 03-28-2008, 03:18 PM

The butt in round one was a real bitch. Just seemed destined to happen against poor Antofurmo.

Dave's Top Ten · 03-28-2008, 03:59 PM

The difference between the first and second fight was Hagler's confidence. Hagler looked like a champion in the second fight. Having said that, the second butt in the rematch looked deliberate to me.

I just cannot fathom some people's opinion of the first fight. Vito fought a rugged fight and showed real heart but he got trounced ! I've watched the fight a number of times and believe it's possibly the worst decision I've ever seen, forget about Lewis Holy I. Being super generous to Vito, I would give him 5 rounds. Admittedly I am a Hagler fan but this one has to be the worst Hagler got screwed in his career. Much worse than the Duran fight and the SRL fight (which was uber close anyway). Vito came on strong in the final 5 round but that doesn't mean he managed to get much done in the first 10: rounds in which Marvin put on a clinic ! It amazes me the number of people who think Vito deserved a draw. It's significant I think that I've never read anyone who thinks he actually won.

JohnThomas1 · 03-28-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salsanchezfan

I agree that Hagler won, but it wasn't by a lot. Anyone claiming it to be some sort of terribly obvious thing is mistaken or hasn't seen it. Hagler DID fade noticeably in the second half of the fight, and Vito stole some rounds. I had Hagler by two points, and that's a close fight.

As to fight number two, Vito had been floored by Mauricio Aldana in the fight just before that, and suddenly seemed to look his age, according to what I've read (haven't seen that fight). That idea seemed reinforced when Hagler took him on the second time. I think the knockdown Hagker scored there was as much a balance issue for Vito as being hurt; the punch landed on his forehead, if memory serves, and he was squared up against Hagler I think. I'll have to watch it again.

Vito just seemed more passive and out of synch, and Marvin sliced him up, forcing a stoppage.

Which goes to show you, when Antuofermo didn't bleed, he could be difficult to stay with.

Yeah, that's about it for me. Back in the day many still believed you had to beat the champ convincingly to win and that is the case here i think. Nowadays close rounds are not so easily decided. Vito showed some real rugged ability in the first encounter and was as tough as nails. A tad underrated at times. He was solidly bested by Minter between bouts and was definitely on the decline.

scartissue · 03-29-2008, 12:33 PM

[quote=salsanchezfan]I agree that Hagler won, but it wasn't by a lot. Anyone claiming it to be some sort of terribly obvious thing is mistaken or hasn't seen it. Hagler DID fade noticeably in the second half of the fight, and Vito stole some rounds. I had Hagler by two points, and that's a close fight.

I had it dead even going into the final round and gave the 15th to Marvin, so I didn't have a problem with the draw either.

Scartissue

Dave's Top Ten · 03-29-2008, 01:48 PM

[quote=scartissue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by salsanchezfan

I agree that Hagler won, but it wasn't by a lot. Anyone claiming it to be some sort of terribly obvious thing is mistaken or hasn't seen it. Hagler DID fade noticeably in the second half of the fight, and Vito stole some rounds. I had Hagler by two points, and that's a close fight.

I had it dead even going into the final round and gave the 15th to Marvin, so I didn't have a problem with the draw either.

Scartissue

Scartissue,
I have the fight on tape and have watched it several times (making Hagler a clear winner). Which rounds do you think Vito won? It would be interesting to check them out.

ps if you had it even into the last round and Hagler won it, then you made him win by ONE point.

kenmore · 03-29-2008, 01:56 PM

I saw the first Hagler-Antuofermo fight live on TV with a bunch of friends. All of us were waiting for Hagler to take over and win by stoppage -- as was expected by everyone in the boxing world -- but it never happened.

It was really incredible to see Antuofermo come on strong after the tenth round and win most of the later rounds.

Even in spite of Antuofermo's late round success, though, I think Hagler got ripped off by the judges. Hagler won most of the first ten rounds and that should have given him an edge of about 9-6 or 8-5-2 on the cards after fifteen rounds.

Marvin had a history of being shafted by judges. Of his three losses (Boogaloo Watts, Worm Monroe and Sugar Ray Leonard), only the Monroe bout was a true defeat (1976 decision). By all accounts the Watts fight (1976 decision in Watt's hometown of Philadelphia) was a robbery, with even the Pennsylvania boxing commission admitting error. The Sugar Ray decision (1987) could have gone either way. Many reasonable observers felt Hagler deserved the nod against Leonard.

The same is true with Hagler's early career draw (1974 bout in Seattle) with Sugar Ray Seales. That verdict was widely regarded as a hometown gift for Seales.

Fortunately, Hagler tended to mete out justice in rematches. Antuofermo, Watts, Monroe and Seales were all decisively knocked out by Marvin in return bouts.

Bummy Davis · 03-29-2008, 08:26 PM

No Way Hagler Deserved The 1st Fight

Nemesis · 03-29-2008, 08:30 PM

I must be the only person who had their first fight a Draw too. Hagler GOT caught too often in close IMO

kenmore · 03-29-2008, 08:44 PM

Bummy and Nemesis: do you remember how you scored the first Hagler-Antuofermo in rounds?

03-28-2008, 10:10 AM	#1
Russell Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 12,164 vCash: 75	Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? Eh?
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03-28-2008, 10:40 AM	#2
jaywilton Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 134 vCash: 1000	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? The draw for Vito was cool with me in their first fight;he fought one of the gutsiest fights I've seen to hang in there;I began to think Hagler was overrated beginning with Vito I-and I think claims that Hagler could've gotten Duran out of there(outside of a lucky shot)are stretching it.
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03-28-2008, 12:20 PM	#3
JohnPaul Futbol Journeyman Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 56 vCash: 1000	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? I've watched the first fight about 5 times, no way that was a draw. Hagler clearly won that fight.
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03-28-2008, 01:33 PM	#4
sthomas Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,086 vCash: 1000	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? I watched #I on live TV way back when. Never watched it again yet. @ the time Haglar was definately the stronger of the two but Vito kept on coming back and it was very close in my opinion and thought the draw was fair.
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03-28-2008, 03:13 PM	#6
salsanchezfan Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 6,895 vCash: 1000	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? I agree that Hagler won, but it wasn't by a lot. Anyone claiming it to be some sort of terribly obvious thing is mistaken or hasn't seen it. Hagler DID fade noticeably in the second half of the fight, and Vito stole some rounds. I had Hagler by two points, and that's a close fight. As to fight number two, Vito had been floored by Mauricio Aldana in the fight just before that, and suddenly seemed to look his age, according to what I've read (haven't seen that fight). That idea seemed reinforced when Hagler took him on the second time. I think the knockdown Hagker scored there was as much a balance issue for Vito as being hurt; the punch landed on his forehead, if memory serves, and he was squared up against Hagler I think. I'll have to watch it again. Vito just seemed more passive and out of synch, and Marvin sliced him up, forcing a stoppage. Which goes to show you, when Antuofermo didn't bleed, he could be difficult to stay with.
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03-28-2008, 03:18 PM	#7
Russell Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 12,164 vCash: 75	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? The butt in round one was a real bitch. Just seemed destined to happen against poor Antofurmo.
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03-28-2008, 03:59 PM	#8
Dave's Top Ten Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 580 vCash: 1000	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? The difference between the first and second fight was Hagler's confidence. Hagler looked like a champion in the second fight. Having said that, the second butt in the rematch looked deliberate to me. I just cannot fathom some people's opinion of the first fight. Vito fought a rugged fight and showed real heart but he got trounced ! I've watched the fight a number of times and believe it's possibly the worst decision I've ever seen, forget about Lewis Holy I. Being super generous to Vito, I would give him 5 rounds. Admittedly I am a Hagler fan but this one has to be the worst Hagler got screwed in his career. Much worse than the Duran fight and the SRL fight (which was uber close anyway). Vito came on strong in the final 5 round but that doesn't mean he managed to get much done in the first 10: rounds in which Marvin put on a clinic ! It amazes me the number of people who think Vito deserved a draw. It's significant I think that I've never read anyone who thinks he actually won.
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03-29-2008, 12:33 PM	#10
scartissue Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,041 vCash: 1000	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? [quote=salsanchezfan]I agree that Hagler won, but it wasn't by a lot. Anyone claiming it to be some sort of terribly obvious thing is mistaken or hasn't seen it. Hagler DID fade noticeably in the second half of the fight, and Vito stole some rounds. I had Hagler by two points, and that's a close fight. I had it dead even going into the final round and gave the 15th to Marvin, so I didn't have a problem with the draw either. Scartissue
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03-29-2008, 01:56 PM	#12
kenmore Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,801 vCash: 103	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? I saw the first Hagler-Antuofermo fight live on TV with a bunch of friends. All of us were waiting for Hagler to take over and win by stoppage -- as was expected by everyone in the boxing world -- but it never happened. It was really incredible to see Antuofermo come on strong after the tenth round and win most of the later rounds. Even in spite of Antuofermo's late round success, though, I think Hagler got ripped off by the judges. Hagler won most of the first ten rounds and that should have given him an edge of about 9-6 or 8-5-2 on the cards after fifteen rounds. Marvin had a history of being shafted by judges. Of his three losses (Boogaloo Watts, Worm Monroe and Sugar Ray Leonard), only the Monroe bout was a true defeat (1976 decision). By all accounts the Watts fight (1976 decision in Watt's hometown of Philadelphia) was a robbery, with even the Pennsylvania boxing commission admitting error. The Sugar Ray decision (1987) could have gone either way. Many reasonable observers felt Hagler deserved the nod against Leonard. The same is true with Hagler's early career draw (1974 bout in Seattle) with Sugar Ray Seales. That verdict was widely regarded as a hometown gift for Seales. Fortunately, Hagler tended to mete out justice in rematches. Antuofermo, Watts, Monroe and Seales were all decisively knocked out by Marvin in return bouts.
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03-29-2008, 08:26 PM	#13
Bummy Davis Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: New York Posts: 8,200 vCash: 1000	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? No Way Hagler Deserved The 1st Fight
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03-29-2008, 08:30 PM	#14
Nemesis Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: nil satis nisi optimum Posts: 2,729 vCash: 75	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? I must be the only person who had their first fight a Draw too. Hagler GOT caught too often in close IMO
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03-29-2008, 08:44 PM	#15
kenmore Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,801 vCash: 103	Re: Thoughts On Antofurmo/Hagler I & II? Bummy and Nemesis: do you remember how you scored the first Hagler-Antuofermo in rounds?
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