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Old 11-04-2012, 04:22 AM   #16
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

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Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras View Post
Should we ask Gene Fullmer?
Left hook vs Thulani Malinga was equally good.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:04 AM   #17
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

All the waffle about "athletic ability", "talent level", "natural gifts" etc. is meaningless. So is all this stuff about "skill".

I'd rate Robinson higher. Mostly because he beat more guys up for more years, and many of them were famed/great fighters.
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Jones ability level is above Robinson, he's faster, better defense, better left hook, stronger and packs more P4P power. Robinson has a better jab and right

Legacy wise Jones has the most underrated resume around here, he has a case to be above Robinson. His 2 best wins are arguably better than RObinson's, his dominance in his prime is much more so than Robinson
Better defense?! BWAHAHAHAHA. Please tell me you're joking. The ONLY reason Jones got away with the shit he did was because of his speed and reflexes.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:22 AM   #19
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

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In your opinion, who's better in terms of resume, overall skills, and P4P accomplishments?
Robinson in all categories.

Jones was great, Robinson was the greatest.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:25 AM   #20
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Jones ability level is above Robinson, he's faster, better defense, better left hook, stronger and packs more P4P power. Robinson has a better jab and right

Legacy wise Jones has the most underrated resume around here, he has a case to be above Robinson. His 2 best wins are arguably better than RObinson's, his dominance in his prime is much more so than Robinson
Utterly ridiculous, I hope for your sake you`re trolling.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:28 AM   #21
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

Always thought Roy had the talent to be maybe the best ever, but it never really panned out for him. Robinson is the best ever and stands above Roy in every catagory
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

roy jones himself has called robinson the greatest fighter to ever live on a number of occasions. jones was breathtaking at this best and from the little film we have of prime robinson he's basically a perfect fighter.

jones has also said that in a prime for prime matchup, he would have beat robinson even thought he considers ray the best. he reasoning is that he'd be too big for ray. jones pointed out that he started out basically at middle and was in his prime at 168 where ray started at 135 and was in his prime at 147.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict View Post
Better defense?! BWAHAHAHAHA. Please tell me you're joking. The ONLY reason Jones got away with the shit he did was because of his speed and reflexes.
Not close, Jones was far far harder to hit than Robinson, but his punch slipping it down to reflex if you like, he's leagues better defensively than Robinson

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His resume isn't underrated, it terms of depth and quality from an All Time standpoint - it just doesn't rate....

Robinson amassed a peak professional record of 128-1-2 while winning the welterweight championship and went on to win the middleweight title for a record 5 times - should have been 6.
These are undisputed world titles not some abc stuff...

Overall Robinson defeated 10 Hall of Famer’s in his career; Jake Lamotta, Sammy Angott, Fritzie Zivic, Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan, Rocky Graziano, Randy Turpin, Gene Fullmer and Carmen Basilio.

He also defeated some skilled challengers such as Tommy Bell who could have been world champion in most eras.

His career record against Lamotta, the only man to ever beat a prime Robinson is 5-1. Lamotta outweighed him by an average of 12 pounds in all of their fights. That one series alone surpasses ALL of Roy's record in terms of quality.

Roy must count guys like Clinton Woods, Montel Griffith (who he is 1-1 against) and blown up end of career Welterweight Felix Trinidad and even Vinnie Paz as a some of his top wins! Now Vinnie was a great lightweight and a champ there but a guy FIVE weight classes and SEVEN years beyond his best is yet one of Roy's top 10 wins??

Robinson's quality of opposition is among the top five ALL TIME.

How are you saying Roy is even in the game in this respect?
Yes Jones resume is underrated, he beat 20 something champions. The fact you think Paz is 1 of his best wins, shows you really didn't follow boxing closely during the period

Hill had been a champion for what 10 years, McCallum an ATG, Reggie Johnson was arguably unbeaten and 2 weight champ, with wins over Collins, an SD with Toney, Mallinga twice beat Benn and took Rochiagiani and Eubank to the wire, Tarver was the next champion, Gonzalez beat Darius, Harding beat the next champion in Tarver and Griffin. He beat plenty of fighters who went onto win titles after he beat him like Hopkins, Woods, Gonzalez, Lucas, Castro, Malinga

People hype up Robinson's resume talking about hall of famers, but allot of those HOFamers just aren't that good. Graziano being a case in point, a brawler with a punch who avoided nearly all the best of his era.

Lamotta, Fullmer and Basilio are basic pressure guys, tough and relentless but none of them that great. These aren't the P4P best guys from his era. Galivan probably is, as are Burley, Pep, Charles, Moore, Charles, Marshall. Galivan is the best P4P Robinson fought alongside an old Armstrong, Jones fought 2 men who would be top2 P4P boxers in Hopkins and Toney.

Robinson won the MW title 5 times, how many times did he lose it though?

You say Robinson beat 6 Undisputed champs, did those undisputed champs take on the coloured champion? I think it's more, out of the undisputed champs and belt holders in his era Jones faced allot of them

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP_Mauler View Post
Faster? Err..Doubt it
Left hook? No
Stronger?p4p Power? How many people has Roy killed or how many mouthguards has he seen fly from his opponents mouth after a punch

Ability level is below Sugars,So his stamnia in long fights,will to win,his intimidation in the ring..Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest of all time.

If Roy is good but SRR is great
Robinson faster than Jones now, seriously

Yes Jones left hook was faster, shorter, sharper, more accurate and yes more powerful

And no Robinson doesn't have better stamina prime for prime, Jones fights at a faster pace than Robinson in his filmed fights

Killing an opponent has nothing to do with power, Jesus Chavez killed an opponent, do you rate him as an all time puncher?
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:53 PM   #24
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

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Left hook vs Thulani Malinga was equally good.
Different level of competiton. Fullmer had one of the great chins. He was also the Middleweight Champion of the World at the time he walked into that hook.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:32 PM   #26
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

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Not close, Jones was far far harder to hit than Robinson, but his punch slipping it down to reflex if you like, he's leagues better defensively than Robinson



Yes Jones resume is underrated, he beat 20 something champions. The fact you think Paz is 1 of his best wins, shows you really didn't follow boxing closely during the period

Hill had been a champion for what 10 years, McCallum an ATG, Reggie Johnson was arguably unbeaten and 2 weight champ, with wins over Collins, an SD with Toney, Mallinga twice beat Benn and took Rochiagiani and Eubank to the wire, Tarver was the next champion, Gonzalez beat Darius, Harding beat the next champion in Tarver and Griffin. He beat plenty of fighters who went onto win titles after he beat him like Hopkins, Woods, Gonzalez, Lucas, Castro, Malinga

People hype up Robinson's resume talking about hall of famers, but allot of those HOFamers just aren't that good. Graziano being a case in point, a brawler with a punch who avoided nearly all the best of his era.

Lamotta, Fullmer and Basilio are basic pressure guys, tough and relentless but none of them that great. These aren't the P4P best guys from his era. Galivan probably is, as are Burley, Pep, Charles, Moore, Charles, Marshall. Galivan is the best P4P Robinson fought alongside an old Armstrong, Jones fought 2 men who would be top2 P4P boxers in Hopkins and Toney.

Robinson won the MW title 5 times, how many times did he lose it though?

You say Robinson beat 6 Undisputed champs, did those undisputed champs take on the coloured champion? I think it's more, out of the undisputed champs and belt holders in his era Jones faced allot of them



Robinson faster than Jones now, seriously

Yes Jones left hook was faster, shorter, sharper, more accurate and yes more powerful

And no Robinson doesn't have better stamina prime for prime, Jones fights at a faster pace than Robinson in his filmed fights

Killing an opponent has nothing to do with power, Jesus Chavez killed an opponent, do you rate him as an all time puncher?
Maybe so, but Robinson has a better chin than Jones. Also, show me Jones winning 91 consecutive fights without losing.

Oh, and McCallum was WELL past his prime when he fought Jones.

Basilio was a two division world champion, welterweight and middleweight.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

Regarding defence with his great jab and excellent footwork Robinson's could have been anything he wanted it to be. The thing is he also loved a fight and he ended up in many toe to toe fights.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:04 PM   #28
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict View Post
Maybe so, but Robinson has a better chin than Jones. Also, show me Jones winning 91 consecutive fights without losing.

Oh, and McCallum was WELL past his prime when he fought Jones.

Basilio was a two division world champion, welterweight and middleweight.
91 fights, how many were actually world beaters? It's meaningless, he does have a better chin though but Jones first 15years in boxing saw no one stop him and durability does decline with age

Armstrong and Graziano was past prime too, every fighter faces past prime opponents

I know full well about Basilio

Quote:
Originally Posted by ron u.k. View Post
Regarding defence with his great jab and excellent footwork Robinson's could have been anything he wanted it to be. The thing is he also loved a fight and he ended up in many toe to toe fights.
Robinson's defence just wasn't that great, it was a ***** in his armour

Quote:
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Different level of competiton. Fullmer had one of the great chins. He was also the Middleweight Champion of the World at the time he walked into that hook.
It was a great KO, it doesn't mean Robinson has a better left hook, Jones also has the destruction of LHW champ Griffin with his left hook

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCr_igXBWRk[/ame]
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:03 PM   #29
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post

Legacy wise Jones has the most underrated resume around here, he has a case to be above Robinson. His 2 best wins are arguably better than RObinson's, his dominance in his prime is much more so than Robinson
^ By all means argue whatever you want on the basis of "abilities" but this is just crap.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Yes Jones resume is underrated, he beat 20 something champions. The fact you think Paz is 1 of his best wins, shows you really didn't follow boxing closely during the period

Robinson won the MW title 5 times, how many times did he lose it though?

Yo PP,

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Yes, Vinnie IS one of Roy’s 10 best wins as pathetic as that is.

Are you sure you are paying attention to the facts and not looking at Roy through those rose colored glasses?

Getting 20 Something ABCDEFG paper strap scrappers scalps is not that big a deal today since we have so many watered down weight divisions and so many champs in each division from so many ABC orgs. I’m not impressed. You shouldn’t be either…

Robinson, on the other hand, went 40-0 as a pro before losing a decision to Jake Lamotta, a middleweight who outweighed him by nearly 16 pounds.

He was unbeatable for the next eight years going on a 91 bout winning streak.

That one streak alone is about 50% greater than Roy’s entire career.

Now when you bring up Ray’s losses you doom YOUR man in terms of legacy.

Robinson’s total record is 175-19-6 2 NC with 109 kayo’s. 16 of his 19 losses came after his first comeback at age 34, 12 after the age of 40.

Now let us compare Roy’s record after age 34!!
When was Robinson EVER sparked? Where are his 3 fight losing streaks – Roy has a pair of them.

Robinson, far past his best and over his best weight, consistently and repeatedly won and recaptured world titles. Roy? Not so much… Not any at all actually.

Robinson was absolutely outstanding in rematches. He won rematches against 11 men before finally losing twice to the same fighter. No one ever beat him twice until he was 40 years old and had over 150 fights and even then they were two split-decisions.

Against this we have Roy’s fabulous once in a lifetime – well once in Roy’s lifetime anyway, victory over Montel Griffith which is the only loss he ever avenged…

BTW since you are so impressed with Roy's top 2 wins you must be a HUGE Calzaghe fan! He has better "top two" wins than Roy does!
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