Willie Pep- Top 5 fighter of all time?

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras

Oh, the Lightweight? Who subsequently ended his career at 154lbs?

The fully sarcastic nature of the post obviously lost on you.

Funny enough, if he'd of fought and dethroned Williams (and it actually could've happened - the fight anyway; was discussed) then he'd really be in business on that whole top five bit.

[kingfisher3]

Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL

No, I don´t why so many people rank him above Benny Leonard....

available footage/the saddler fight's fame i guess. leonard lacked the big opponent(historically)




top 5 all time is such a small number and great weight jumpers like langford and armstrong deservedly fill non srr/greb places on many lists

pep seems to be thought of as a career 126, and it was natural weight, but he fought top lw's in non title fights

for someone who broke their back halfway through their career top 50 would be an incredible achievment, to be top 10 is unbelievable

i cannot understand not being impressed by him on film, even shot he is beautiful to watch

[Aaron Contreras]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

The fully sarcastic nature of the post obviously lost on you.

Funny enough, if he'd of fought and dethroned Williams (and it actually could've happened - the fight anyway; was discussed) then he'd really be in business on that whole top five bit.

You say that as if Pep NEVER fought high level Lightweights.

And Benny Leonard loses a bid in the top-5, as well, because he never fought Mickey Walker?

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras

So Benny Leonard loses a bid in the top-5, as well, because he never fought Mickey Walker?

Well, Greb fought Tunney....Armstrong fought Ross...Robinson fought Maxim, etc.


That's how the Top 5'ers rolled

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras

You say that as if Pep NEVER fought high level Lightweights.

And Benny Leonard loses a bid in the top-5, as well, because he never fought Mickey Walker?

No, that's how you interpreted it. I <3 divisional dominance.

[the cobra]

I have him in the group between 7-12. I tend to rate him at the bottom end of it, but yeah, 7's the highest I could see for him.

[Aaron Contreras]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

No, that's how you interpreted it. I <3 divisional dominance.

Had Pep beat Angott in '43, would things be vastly different for you?

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by kingfisher3

available footage/the saddler fight's fame i guess. leonard lacked the big opponent(historically)




top 5 all time is such a small number and great weight jumpers like langford and armstrong deservedly fill non srr/greb places on many lists

pep seems to be thought of as a career 126, and it was natural weight, but he fought top lw's in non title fights

for someone who broke their back halfway through their career top 50 would be an incredible achievment, to be top 10 is unbelievable

i cannot understand not being impressed by him on film, even shot he is beautiful to watch

Don't forget Ezzard Charles, who beat Burley x2 at MW (albeit weight adv), Archie Moore x3 at LHW and both Louis/Walcott at HW. That's only what's on top.

[kingfisher3]

that's my point really, its not knocking pep to leave him out of a top 5 p4p, because of his injuries and lack of facing much bigger men regularly.

[Aaron Contreras]

Originally Posted by turbotime

Well, Greb fought Tunney....Armstrong fought Ross...Robinson fought Maxim, etc.


That's how the Top 5'ers rolled

They don't really compare to Tunney and Ross but Pep fought and beat ranked Lightweights Allie Stolz (on numerous occasions) and Willie Joyce.

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by Aaron Contreras

They don't really compare to Tunney and Ross but Pep fought and beat ranked Lightweights Allie Stolz (on numerous occasions) and Willie Joyce.

You do realize we're playing about right?

[tliang1000]

Originally Posted by Garrus

Why not T'?

Two movements that i see that is done over and over again. Backpedal and duck. That is his main defense and his offense is ordinary and unimaginative.

[kingfisher3]

Originally Posted by tliang1000

Two movements that i see that is done over and over again. Backpedal and duck. That is his main defense and his offense is ordinary and unimaginative.

defence - not entirely false but incredibly harsh
offence - how can that jab be called ordinary or unimaginative? fast, fluid and textbook imo

[tliang1000]

Originally Posted by kingfisher3

defence - not entirely false but incredibly harsh
offence - how can that jab be called ordinary or unimaginative? fast, fluid and textbook imo

He does got a good jab, i wouldn't say much else after that though. His defense is too one dimenisional imo. Consist of ducking while retreating and jab on his way out. It just seem that his defense is way overated and that he pretty much just defends in retreat.

Whitaker does a lot of ducks and abuse the crap out of it but Whitaker got better upperbody movement and counters.

[Boilermaker]

Originally Posted by turbotime

Well, Greb fought Tunney....Armstrong fought Ross...Robinson fought Maxim, etc.


That's how the Top 5'ers rolled

Greb fought Tunney, but did not win the series.

Robinson fought Joey Maxim, but was knocked out!

How is that how top 5ers roll.

Willie Pep has as good a shot as any at the top 5 position.