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Old 11-07-2012, 08:21 PM   #16
kmac
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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Montel Griffin exposed Roy.
yeah, i mean griffin just owned jones in the rematch.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

Roy Jones, and clearly too.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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Ray.

He actually fought THE BEST out there.
James Toney was THE BEST out there.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:09 AM   #19
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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Leonard for me. He has a better set of attributes against the very best, with his undentable chin, sharp punching, good finishing, overall speedand mentality. He is almost the ultimate all-round package.

Jones is, in a way, the ultimate one-trick pony. He can be backed to the ropes, but his athletic ability in his prime makes this almost an impossible task. There's been many legendary men in boxing, though, and almost impossible is still possible.

I feel Leonard does better against the very best, while Jones would look better against inferior opposition. Besides that, Leonard proved more.
Hmmm. Leonard had very competitive, in several case hard and close, fights with his best opponents, and lost against one of them. Jones beat Hopkins more clearly than he ever was beaten until he had passed 45 years of age. And he absolutely outclassed Toney (in a manner that Toney yet hasn't been again?).

I agree that Leonard is more proven, but few fighters have ever looked so superior to opponents of Hopkins' and Toney's calibre as Jones did. Leonard for sure didn't look that superior to Benitez, Duran, Hearns etc.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:26 AM   #20
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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yeah, i mean griffin just owned jones in the rematch.
So true. I remember watching that fought thinking 'Hmmm getting knocked out in the first round is a risky strategy. Let's see if it pays off.'
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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Hmmm. Leonard had very competitive, in several case hard and close, fights with his best opponents, and lost against one of them. Jones beat Hopkins more clearly than he ever was beaten until he had passed 45 years of age. And he absolutely outclassed Toney (in a manner that Toney yet hasn't been again?).

I agree that Leonard is more proven, but few fighters have ever looked so superior to opponents of Hopkins' and Toney's calibre as Jones did. Leonard for sure didn't look that superior to Benitez, Duran, Hearns etc.
Well, let me clarify. Even against top opposition that suits him, he has the ability to outclass you with his game. Toney relied on outfighting his opponent in the pocket or chasing them down. Hopkins was a thinking all-round pressure fighter. Both could not "hang" with Roy. Terrific performances by Jones.

But if you could make it close, I think Jones is uncomfortable. I don't think he has that grit to turn around a match he is losing, or when his usual game isn't enough.

Long-winded way of saying -- I think Leonard can pull out close matches, where the differences are small, better. With his finishing, mental acumen and all-around top flight abilities.

Might not be the consensus, but it is my honest opinion.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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Well, let me clarify. Even against top opposition that suits him, he has the ability to outclass you with his game. Toney relied on outfighting his opponent in the pocket or chasing them down. Hopkins was a thinking all-round pressure fighter. Both could not "hang" with Roy. Terrific performances by Jones.

But if you could make it close, I think Jones is uncomfortable. I don't think he has that grit to turn around a match he is losing, or when his usual game isn't enough.

Long-winded way of saying -- I think Leonard can pull out close matches, where the differences are small, better. With his finishing, mental acumen and all-around top flight abilities.

Might not be the consensus, but it is my honest opinion.
Basically: If Roy's to win, he'll win big. If he loses, he'll lose big. Maybe he blitzes Moore but gets sparked by Spinks, for instance. Ray might struggle here and there to pull out a win - in fact it's likely against the absolute top guys around his weight - but it'd be a win all the same.

I think there's some truth to that.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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Well, let me clarify. Even against top opposition that suits him, he has the ability to outclass you with his game. Toney relied on outfighting his opponent in the pocket or chasing them down. Hopkins was a thinking all-round pressure fighter. Both could not "hang" with Roy. Terrific performances by Jones.
Saying they "suit" him is just hindsight.

If Jones and Hopkins hadn't met, I can see many making Hopkins out as a very difficult hypothetical opponent for him. A terrifically technically and tactically skilled, very tenacious and determined pressure fighter (as the younger Hopkins was) with great stamina, strong chin and good punch shouldn't by any stretch of the imagination be anything that suited Jones. Rather, it should have been more or less stylistical poison for him.

I also believe that Hopkins gave him a better fight than the scorecard suggests. His toughest opponent until Tarver (if we count the first Griffin fight as an off night which was set straight in the rematch).

Toney suited him better, perhaps, seeing how relatively immobile he was. But if there's anyone you'd think should be able to exploit Roy's big technical flaws it would be the best counter puncher of any weight class of his generation. Just look what Barrera (a lesser counter puncher than Toney) did to Hamed.

Toney wasn't at his best that night, but Jones absolutely showed him up and embarrased him. Like no one before or since (I think).


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But if you could make it close, I think Jones is uncomfortable. I don't think he has that grit to turn around a match he is losing, or when his usual game isn't enough.

Long-winded way of saying -- I think Leonard can pull out close matches, where the differences are small, better. With his finishing, mental acumen and all-around top flight abilities.

Might not be the consensus, but it is my honest opinion.
You may well be right. Jones never really had to prove it the way Ray did, so it's quite hypothetical, though.

But I think he pulled himself well together in the first Tarver fight. Less so in the third, though.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:31 PM   #24
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

Prime Roy was superman. Y'all must of forgot
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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So true. I remember watching that fought thinking 'Hmmm getting knocked out in the first round is a risky strategy. Let's see if it pays off.'
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

Hopkins was a long way from being terrifically technically and tactically skilled when he fought Jones.

He had a of good tools already, but he was more of a very good come forward in straight lines brawling fighter that was capable of throwing nice technically sound punches and working well in close.Not a great amount of finesse or tactical flexibility there yet.His footwork and as yet unrefined stance looked like he had bandy legs at times, shuffling forward like a bigger Maurice Hope.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:42 PM   #27
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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Hopkins was a long way from being terrifically technically and tactically skilled when he fought Jones.

He had a of good tools already, but he was more of a very good come forward in straight lines brawling fighter that was capable of throwing nice technically sound punches and working well in close.Not a great amount of finesse or tactical flexibility there yet.His footwork and as yet unrefined stance looked like he had bandy legs at times, shuffling forward like a bigger Maurice Hope.
The technical flaws he had back then stayed with him, and has grown over the last decade. His stance and balance was fine, just that he had a tendency to step forward behind the lead right and put his head down when coming in. That stayed with him, though.

Tactically I think he did well against an extremely tricky opponent. A more experienced Hopkins (let's say the one against Echols) would have been more confident and consistent with his pressure, but then a more experienced Jones would be more relaxed handling that pressure. Especially early on.

It was the first big test for both, and it showed. But all in all I think both came through it well and showed most of their peak capabilities once the nerves had settled and they got into their rhytm.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:43 PM   #28
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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Originally Posted by lora View Post
Hopkins was a long way from being terrifically technically and tactically skilled when he fought Jones.

He had a of good tools already, but he was more of a very good come forward in straight lines brawling fighter that was capable of throwing nice technically sound punches and working well in close.Not a great amount of finesse or tactical flexibility there yet.His footwork and as yet unrefined stance looked like he had bandy legs at times, shuffling forward like a bigger Maurice Hope.
Hopkins had a chance at a rematch in early 2000s, and he declined a career high payday. I don't see it going any different, why do you think Hopkins moved up almost instantaneously after Jones went 0-2 against Tarver?

Pretty transparent....
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:46 PM   #29
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

Hopkins was no where near the fighter he would become. It's not like he outclassed the hopkins of later years...

Toney.. was weight drained and looked like shit... I still think Roy wins, but let's not act like this was a good prime version of toney.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:02 PM   #30
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Default Re: Who was better P4P in their prime Roy Jones Jr or Sugar Ray Leonard?

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Hopkins was no where near the fighter he would become. It's not like he outclassed the hopkins of later years...

Toney.. was weight drained and looked like shit... I still think Roy wins, but let's not act like this was a good prime version of toney.
No one is. Toney was inconsistent even in his prime, but when did any other fighter do whatever he liked with Toney like that? Even with a fat Toney in his 40's?
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