Chris John Deserves More Credit

[BoppaZoo]

Originally Posted by divac

If the JMM victory was legit, John would get some respect, but anyone educated on boxing knows John got a gift in his backyard.

The Rocky Juarez fights are what really define John imo.
I scored the first Juarez fight a draw and John was incredibly lucky he was'nt put out in the last round because he was that close from getting stopped.
John won the second fight with Juarez imo but even in that fight the lead footed Juarez who's really nothing but a stepping stone to better fighters, almost had John out again in the final round.

The Juarez fights put an exclamation point to me John is nowhere near elite!

He did not get a gift that fight was fucking close and could have went either way re watch the fight Divac.

The fight I remember was Marquez threw a heap but missed even More. Were John Jabs hit most of the night.

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

JMM beat him that day as well. Before that he beat Pac and after that he beat MAB before beating Pac twice more.

I don't care so much for official decisions, I score fights myself.

To be fair, I try to watch close fights 3 times or more over a period of a couple of years. I've never scored the John-JMM fight as anything other than a JMM victory.

The 3 pac fights were much closer and the first time I watched them I had the first 2 as Pac victories by 1 point and the third as a draw. But the next two times I watched them I saw JMM as the victor each time.

Boxing is a subjective sport and I love the debates it generates, but people shouldn't be so black and white about official results.

i.e. Leonard - Hearns 2 was a clear victory for Tommy.

lufcrazy, I see your point. I think Tommy should have won, but he didn't. And it was his fault. He came out fast at the beginning of round 12 and got tired and Ray won the last half of the round. It was not 10-8 like one of the guys said, but Tommy getting tired opened up the possibility that he could lose the round big or even lose the fight. He should have come out boxing and landed his right at a slower pace.

But I always still take the official score or result as the truth because we cannot say JMM beat John or Pacman if he really didn't on the record.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by MAG1965

lufcrazy, I see your point. I think Tommy should have won, but he didn't. And it was his fault. He came out fast at the beginning of round 12 and got tired and Ray won the last half of the round. It was not 10-8 like one of the guys said, but Tommy getting tired opened up the possibility that he could lose the round big or even lose the fight. He should have come out boxing and landed his right at a slower pace.

But I always still take the official score or result as the truth because we cannot say JMM beat John or Pacman if he really didn't on the record.

I just can't hold a result against a fighter when I disagree with it.

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I just can't hold a result against a fighter when I disagree with it.

I see what you mean. I respect that. I guess that is one variable in a fight. hometown decisions. People sure got on Virgil Hill's case for that years ago.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by MAG1965

I see what you mean. I respect that. I guess that is one variable in a fight. hometown decisions. People sure got on Virgil Hill's case for that years ago.

I think that going into the John fight, JMM was the best featherweight in the world and after I watched his performance with John, I believed it was a title he still held.

[divac]

Originally Posted by BoppaZoo

He did not get a gift that fight was fucking close and could have went either way re watch the fight Divac.

The fight I remember was Marquez threw a heap but missed even More. Were John Jabs hit most of the night.

I watched the fight the first time and could'nt find a clear round to give to John. He ran and did'nt throw anything of substance.
Marquez chased that night and landed all the clean shots of the night.

If I remember correctly its been so long, I think I gave John 2 rounds tops with maybe an additional round that I could say was competitive.
Everything else Marquez was the only one who landed with anything that was effective.

John pretty much fought a survival fight knowing it would be more than good enough to get a decision in his own backyard.


For those that done know, when the fight happened, it was'nt televised anywhere.
Fight...news was the only site that reported on the fight.
Fight....news had an Asian correspondent reporting on the happenings.
None of the boxing scribes around the world cared to attend and report on the fight and since it was'nt televised anywhere but in the Asian market, most boxing scribes around the world did'nt see the fight.

I lost any respect I had for Fight.....news that day. They should have had a neutral boxing scribe reporting the happenings, but instead they let an Asian correspondent stationed in Indonesia write about the happenings of the fight.
Every boxing site took this correspondents write up of the fight and virtually word for word reported the same, taking his word for it.

Boxing fans in this very forum thought that since every boxing site was reporting the same happenings as this Indonesian bias correspondent, that it was accurate and true that John deserved the decisions.

It was'nt until weeks later when the JMM-John fight started to circulate the internet, that boxing scribes started to write up their own takes on the fight. Articles titled, "Heist of the year!"


It was a terrible decision, no if's, and's, or but's!
Hometown decision at its very finest!

[vengeex]

John is JMM's daddy... that's a lot of credit.

[Spitfire7]

Originally Posted by BoppaZoo

so did I. Mate that was a close fight whoever says Robbery is fucking insane. And also when Marquez was pretty well coming into his Prime.

Those who dispute the fact were mostly Mexicans (understandably) in denial. Close fight but CJ edged that one with effective defense, counterpunching, more accurate jabs, etc.

JMM was underwhelming (i thought he was overconfident because John was virtually unknown to the West at the time, while he just broke through a level of superstardom through the epic Pac-JMM 1 fight), knowing full well he was on enemy territory. JMM's fault.

[igor_otsky]

Originally Posted by MarioBrothers

great fighter but if my boy donaire moves up he will send him back to vietnam

China dude. China.


and Nonito is Vietnamese. Fuck. VIETMINH GANGNAM HO CHI MINH MOTHERFUCKER!

[Babality]

Chris John beat JMM. It was close but he won.

[igor_otsky]

That was not the JMM that I know when he fought Chris Rock John. Juan could have been poisoned with coconut jizz when Juan arrived at Jakarta International Airport.

[RobertV77]

He is underrated. He is a beautiful boxer.

[OnePunchKO]

Originally Posted by RobertV77

He is underrated. He is a beautiful boxer.

So you'd fuck him, eh?

[Seckah]

I would of love to see him fight Celestino Caballero 4 years ago!!!

[BoppaZoo]

Originally Posted by divac

I watched the fight the first time and could'nt find a clear round to give to John. He ran and did'nt throw anything of substance.
Marquez chased that night and landed all the clean shots of the night.

If I remember correctly its been so long, I think I gave John 2 rounds tops with maybe an additional round that I could say was competitive.
Everything else Marquez was the only one who landed with anything that was effective.

John pretty much fought a survival fight knowing it would be more than good enough to get a decision in his own backyard.


For those that done know, when the fight happened, it was'nt televised anywhere.
Fight...news was the only site that reported on the fight.
Fight....news had an Asian correspondent reporting on the happenings.
None of the boxing scribes around the world cared to attend and report on the fight and since it was'nt televised anywhere but in the Asian market, most boxing scribes around the world did'nt see the fight.

I lost any respect I had for Fight.....news that day. They should have had a neutral boxing scribe reporting the happenings, but instead they let an Asian correspondent stationed in Indonesia write about the happenings of the fight.
Every boxing site took this correspondents write up of the fight and virtually word for word reported the same, taking his word for it.

Boxing fans in this very forum thought that since every boxing site was reporting the same happenings as this Indonesian bias correspondent, that it was accurate and true that John deserved the decisions.

It was'nt until weeks later when the JMM-John fight started to circulate the internet, that boxing scribes started to write up their own takes on the fight. Articles titled, "Heist of the year!"


It was a terrible decision, no if's, and's, or but's!
Hometown decision at its very finest!

what are you talking about the fight I remember is Chris John everytime he jabbed connected with JMM face.

But everytime and I mean everytime Juan threw he hit gloves or Air. This went on the whole fight.

I remember clearly Marquez throwing 60 to 80 Uppercuts for the night and everyone caught AIR.

I had John winning by 2 rounds.