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Old 11-10-2012, 07:36 AM   #1
Mendoza
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Default Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

This is pure gold, as Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney. Click the below link. No need to spoil anything, but get ready for a surprise or two!



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Old 11-10-2012, 08:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

I would make the observation that Johnson fought six people on the list.

It is interesting that many both Johnson and Burns have Philadelphia Jack OBrien on their all time top 10 lists.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:30 AM   #3
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

I agree with Johnson in many cases when he talks about other fighters. For example, I have said for years Corbett had faster feet. Johnson agrees.

Perhaps Peter Jackson should be viewed a bit like Harry Gerb. A great fighter with no film. If Johnson says Jackson ( which I think as well ) was better than McVey, Jeanette or Langford that is pretty solid, since Johnson beat the other guys, but never fought Jackson.

George Siler, who was the 3rd man in the ring in Jackson and Johnson fights felt Jackson was the better by long odds. Powerful stuff.

I also agree with Johnson on Sullivan. Johnson's placement of Fitz I think has a lot to do with a tip of that hat in a pound for pound sense, but everyone of the time thought Ruby Robert was a deadly man.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

It's not a surprise to anyone who read this thread a week ago. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

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Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
It's not a surprise to anyone who read this thread a week ago. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Ah I see. Sorry, I don't log in nearly as much as I used to.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

No great surprises, but then again I've seen it before.

The list seems pretty good. I think having O'Brien above Tunney and Dempsey is the biggest indicator of an 'era bias' though.
I'm not sold on McVey and Jeanette either.
Interesting that he leaves off Tommy Burns.

I have no doubts that Peter Jackson, Jeffries, Sullivan and Fitzsimmons were great fighters.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:02 AM   #7
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

Johnson sure did get a lot of room in the press back in those days.

And it's a silly list. He obviously either was not informed about or chose to ignore the kind of shape Sullivan was in by the time he fought Corbett. O'Brien in front of Dempsey and Tunney just reeks of the worst kind of sentimentality. And filling the list with your own opponents is a narcissists's delight. Did Tony Ross just fail to make the cut?
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:54 AM   #8
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

To be fair to Johnson, he did fight a lot of the top names.
Almost any top 12 list of HWs 'from Sullivan era to 1929' would include at least 3 or 4 men who Johnson fought, I would imagine.

He left off Burns and Hart.

I'd have Jeffries, Fitz and Langford as certainties. Perhaps Burns, perhaps Willard. Not sure about Jeanette and McVey. O'brien ? No.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
This is pure gold, as Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney. Click the below link. No need to spoil anything, but get ready for a surprise or two!



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I posted this about 8 months ago.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

Although Johnson defeated his #1 in Bob Fitzsimmons, he always played down the win on the grounds thgat Fitzsimmons was shot. I would therfore suggest that this is a sincere pick.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

What I'd really like to see is Bob Fitzsimmons, James J. Corbett, or Jem Mace's top 10 or 20; so we could see how the bare knuckle champions were compared to the early gloved champions, and if there'd be a lot of old timer bias there as well. That sort of thing is too early for The Ring but maybe it would get covered in the National Police Gazette, or a local paper. Maybe find an old paper by Hype Igoe or W. W. Naughton, some early sportswriter who would have seen both and could tell how the sport was changing.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:08 AM   #12
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

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This is pure gold, as Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney. Click the below link. No need to spoil anything, but get ready for a surprise or two!


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Fabulous old article.
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:17 AM   #13
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

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Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
What I'd really like to see is Bob Fitzsimmons, James J. Corbett, or Jem Mace's top 10 or 20; so we could see how the bare knuckle champions were compared to the early gloved champions, and if there'd be a lot of old timer bias there as well. That sort of thing is too early for The Ring but maybe it would get covered in the National Police Gazette, or a local paper. Maybe find an old paper by Hype Igoe or W. W. Naughton, some early sportswriter who would have seen both and could tell how the sport was changing.
There were old timers who picked Jem Mace over Jim Jeffries, while the latter was champion. One person who might provide an interesting insight is Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, who sparred with both Jem Mace and Joe Louis. I have seen Corbetts top 10, and he has Peter Jackson and Jim Jeffries tied at #1.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:06 AM   #14
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Johnson sure did get a lot of room in the press back in those days.

And it's a silly list. He obviously either was not informed about or chose to ignore the kind of shape Sullivan was in by the time he fought Corbett. O'Brien in front of Dempsey and Tunney just reeks of the worst kind of sentimentality. And filling the list with your own opponents is a narcissists's delight. Did Tony Ross just fail to make the cut?

Placing O'Brien over Dempsey is ludicrous, but I think I know why. O'Brien who meet a prime version of Jack Johnson made him look bad and according to some primary local sources won the 6 round match.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:20 AM   #15
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Default Re: Jack Johnson rates the top 12 from Sullivan to Tunney.

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Placing O'Brien over Dempsey is ludicrous, but I think I know why. O'Brien who meet a prime version of Jack Johnson made him look bad and according to some primary local sources won the 6 round match.
Then why didn't Marvin Hart or Jess Willard make his list?
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