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Old 11-11-2012, 11:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

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Flea if you say Khaosai Galaxy I'll turn you into a newt!
He was not champion so doesn't count.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:34 AM   #17
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

Freddie Cochrane - was not rated in the end of the year ratings by Ring in 1940, but won the title from Zivic in '41. Sat on the title for a year going 2-2 in non-title fights and then froze the title for the next 3 years while he joined the service during WWII, Came back in mid '45 and sat on the title some more going 6-2 in non-title fights. During all this time such fighters graced the ring ratings such as Cocoa Kid, Holman Williams, Charley Burley, Henry Armstrong, Tippy Larkin, Sammy Angott and his outstanding challenger at #1 was Sugar Ray Robinson. Cochrane defended his title instead in Feb of '46 against Marty Servo who was not rated in Ring's top ten at the end of '45 because he had just got out of the service himself having his first fight in December after being away for 3 years having 2 fights against unrated fighters and gets the title shot.

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Old 11-11-2012, 11:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

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He was not champion so doesn't count.
Heretic!
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

You walked into that one
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

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I do not think that having a weak champion is necisarily a mark of a weak era.

They sometimes beat the odds.

Can you come up with some examples?
I don't know if his name has already been mentioned on this thread, but Jimmy Ellis was considered as a "paper champion" back in his day. But he fought in a very competitive era, and did well by my standards. He defeated Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Leotis Martin, George Chuvalo and a resurgent Floyd Patterson, before losing to a peak Joe Frazier. While its reasonable to say that his claim to the title was somewhat weak, he was certainly not a weak champion, and faired quite well given the circumstances that he was placed in. Ellis began his career as a middleweight then briefly ascended to light heavyweight, before making his mark above 200 lbs. I don't know if I can see him winning a belt in every era and in truth, he probably wouldn't in some. But in top form, he'd likely crack just about any top 10 and could potentially spoil a lot of favorites.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

Freddie Mills. Good fighter, as tough as they come, but given the astonishing depth of light heavyweight at the time, there were probably at least a dozen fighters at 175 who would have been favored to knock him out. And there were probably four or five at middleweight who would have been favored to beat him as well.


Not a knock at Mills at all, its just interesting and in some ways even inspiring that a gutsy but physically ordinary fighter like him can become world champion in a prestige division by earnest effort.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:35 PM   #22
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

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You walked into that one
I'll concede. Poor Khaosai! Hell just be content with being the best Thai boxer of all time avoided by all the fighters of his era like a tinier, greater Charley Burley. Its tough to be a champion when everyone picks on your lesser brother instead of stepping up.
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

Boo!!!
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

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Originally Posted by The Funny Man 7 View Post
Freddie Mills. Good fighter, as tough as they come, but given the astonishing depth of light heavyweight at the time, there were probably at least a dozen fighters at 175 who would have been favored to knock him out. And there were probably four or five at middleweight who would have been favored to beat him as well.


Not a knock at Mills at all, its just interesting and in some ways even inspiring that a gutsy but physically ordinary fighter like him can become world champion in a prestige division by earnest effort.
By OWNERSHIP...

brave man though, and genuine L-HW Contender/Champion, but yes a few other Top L-HWs could have beat him, wouldn't bet to surely on too many middles though, Mills was strong and durable as _uck!
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

Light-heavyweight champions in the Levinsky-Carpentier-Siki-McTigue sequence.
Not necessarily weak per se, but this was the era of Norfolk, Miske, Gibbons, Greb and Tunney.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:03 PM   #26
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

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Light-heavyweight champions in the Levinsky-Carpentier-Siki-McTigue sequence.
Not necessarily weak per se, but this was the era of Norfolk, Miske, Gibbons, Greb and Tunney.
Another good call.

The disparity between the champions and the best contenders, was such that the title was becoming regarded as a bit of a joke.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:20 PM   #27
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

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Alphabet titlists don't count.

It is certainly curious that Moorer, Foreman and Briggs established lineage among these giants.
why would alphabet not count?

you don't seriously hold the foreman-briggs fight in higher esteem than tyson-holy 2, surely?
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:34 PM   #28
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

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why would alphabet not count?

you don't seriously hold the foreman-briggs fight in higher esteem than tyson-holy 2, surely?
Perhaps not higher esteem, but certainly higher relevance to the lineage.

While the weakest lineal champions were prety dire, they were a lot better than the weakest alphabet champions.

An alphabet title is a lot easier to obtain.

So yes, I do still place some value on lineage.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:40 PM   #29
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

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Perhaps not higher esteem, but certainly higher relevance to the lineage.

While the weakest lineal champions were prety dire, they were a lot better than the weakest alphabet champions.

An alphabet title is a lot easier to obtain.

So yes, I do still place some value on lineage.
so you think it was easier for Holy to make Tyson quit than it was for Briggs to be bullied by a 79 year old man who's grill I just purchased?

the Briggs v Foreman fight was a sideshow in a great decade of HW boxing. it's relevance is nil.
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:38 PM   #30
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Default Re: Weak champions in strong eras

How about Mike Rossman who was the LHW champion in 1978 ?
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