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Old 11-11-2012, 01:17 PM   #1
Senor Pepe'
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Default Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

The back room dealings and the 'secretive fight contract' that Heavyweight Champion
- Sonny Liston and Jack Nilon signed in 1963.

Some of the newly found wording, and multiple contracts that were signed, only to
confuse the Boxing Commission Officials.

One has surfaced, with Sonny Liston signing a contract, where after losing to Cassius Clay
on February 24, 1964 - that in 'no way' could Sonny have another bout, before having the
rematch with Cassius Clay.

Of course, the question is asked, 'What do you mean have another fight, are you planning to lose Sonny'.

Early contracts stated that the rematch was to take place in September 1964, but once the Boxing
Commission Officials started talking, all bets were off as to getting a bout in before November 1964.

The 'sharp' Boxing Commissioners knew something was up.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

...are you trying to tell me this animal signed a re-match contract before a HW world title fight? That is insane.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
...are you trying to tell me this animal signed a re-match contract before a HW world title fight? That is insane.
Garland Sherry (Attorney), Jack Nilon (Manager) and Robert Nilon
(I-C-P President) were representatives for Sonny Liston.

Gordon Davidson (Attorney) and William Faversham Jr. (President of the
Louisville Sponsoring Group) were representatives for Cassius Clay.

They met in late-October 1963 in Gordon Davidson's Louisville, Kentucky
office to sign the 'multiple contracts'.

Several fight contracts are prepared, to show the Boxing Commission Officials,
and a couple of others as personal contracts for the 'two' fighters, that no one
else was supposed to see.

Inside Apples, ('Original Deal')

A) Cassius Clay beats Sonny Liston in February 1964, amidts controversy.
(The best place to stage this 'act' would be Miami Beach, where it could be directed easier).

B) Sonny Liston beats Cassius Clay in September 1964, with more controversy, setting up a 'third bout'.
(Find another 'aggreeable' location, where this could be staged, ie; Boston).

C) Cassius Clay beats Sonny Liston in May 1965.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

So, you are saying you have seen a contract signed by Sonny Liston which stipulates that Liston will lose the first fight?
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
So, you are saying you have seen a contract signed by Sonny Liston which stipulates that Liston will lose the first fight?
Yes,

William Faversham Jr. had a 'signed contract' from October 25, 1963 -
that stated Sonny Liston could not have another fight after his
February 24, 1964 fight with Cassius Clay.

Sonny Liston (after losing) could 'only' fight Cassius Clay in the rematch,
with absoluetly no other tune-up bouts permitted.

If Sonny took a tune-up, I-C-P would then lose the promotional rights to
the rematch, where the big money was.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Yes,
You have SEEN a contract which explicitly states Liston will LOSE the first fight, SIGNED by Liston?
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:23 PM   #7
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
So, you are saying you have seen a contract signed by Sonny Liston which stipulates that Liston will lose the first fight?

I think it's common knowledge that both of those fights had pre-arranged outcomes.

Clay could not have beaten Liston if they hadn't been.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillB View Post
I think it's common knowledge that both of those fights had pre-arranged outcomes.
ok
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
You have SEEN a contract which explicitly states Liston will LOSE the first fight, SIGNED by Liston?
McG,

The contract doesn't say 'LOSE',

It states that,

Sonny Liston 'cannot' engage in another sanctioned bout with any other
professional boxer after the bout with Cassius Clay, or he will forfeit the
right to a rematch, and the promotional rights to the rematch and any
other bouts involving Cassius Clay.

Sonny Liston will 'agree', to engage in a sanctioned bout with only Cassius Clay,
after his first bout with said principal.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
McG,

The contract doesn't say 'LOSE'.
Thank you. Tell me, why did you answer "yes" the first time I asked you that question?



The contract clause you are describing is only odd because of the direction it flows in, btw.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Thank you. Tell me, why did you answer "yes" the first time I asked you that question?



The contract clause you are describing is only odd because of the direction it flows in, btw.
McG,

Sorry about that. There several contracts to disect.
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

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Old 11-11-2012, 05:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

I thought they banned return bout contracts around this time. Of course, they found others ways to write the return bout in (unspecified 'option' clauses).
It seems to be only "IF" Clay beat Liston. Whether or not the fight was fixed, hypotherically under this contract Liston could have won and fought someone else surely ...
It's a dodgy contract for sure, and might encourage a champ or his management to throw a fight - BUT these contracts are commonplace.

One of the most ridiculous contracts, for different reasons, was the Lewis-Tyson fight where Lewis had the right to expect Tyson to fight him twice, they were obliged to rematch whatever the result even after Lewis had beaten the **** out of the hapless challenger.
Lewis ruthlessly enforced and sued Tyson for failing to step up for another beating, which of course was reasonable because it was worth a lot of money to Lewis.
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

I really do not think both fights were predetermined the second one maybe but not the first, why would Sonny take a beating like that without quitting earlier, and his corner were trying to get him back out and you could see the disapointment on Sonny's face
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'The Secretive Fight Contract'

More crap from the king crapper. Moderators, if this board was any good..which it isn't, should ban this guy. One of the main reasons for an old time board is to educate. Crap such as what is posted by pee pee just confuses real boxing history. There is no proof...none...zero...that either fight was fixed. In fact if any objective person watches fight one what you see is a very fast up in coming great hwt beating up on a slow older champion. Just watch the fight. If you very critically watch fight two lots of little details show up that the punch Ali landed truly stopped Liston. Just one example...as Liston throws his last jab he also steps foreword with his lead foot. When Ali's right hand lands it was powerful enough to lift that lead foot off the canvas.
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