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Old 06-01-2013, 12:07 PM   #1
AnthonyW
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Default What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

...if anything?

How would Alvarez do adopting the strategy Guerrero employed for a couple of rounds? Countering the counterpuncher. Would Alvarez be capable or experienced enough to return fire immediately with one of his explosive combinations once he felt a shot land from Mayweather? He has the size advantage after all, and could possibly sustain an attack on Mayweather, taking one to return 3 or 4.

As we have seen, Alvarez puts a lot in to his offense, so much so that he needs to take a breather in between them. Would this strategy allow him to dictate his pace a little better, and not make rounds as close as they should be?

Personally (as many would agree), I think Mayweather boxes better off the back foot, lets/helps his opponent make mistakes, then punishes them. Will Mayweather almost certainly stay on the back foot in this bout due to how good Alvarez looked when he had his opponent forcing his work? Or will Mayweather pick his moments to outwork and win rounds whilst Alvarez is looking for a breather?

It's an intriguing matchup.

Offensively, Mayweather hasn't had an opponent in front of him as good as Alvarez in a long time IMO, then you take the physical advantages Alvarez will bring to the ring.
But then on the other hand, you have defensively, Alvarez has seen nothing like Mayweather. IMO, he's not just going to walk up to Mayweather and land those heavy shots. Even if he traps him in the corner, the target isn't going to be clear, size advantage or not.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:18 PM   #2
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

that losings to Floyd inevitable
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

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that losings to Floyd inevitable
Actually, forgot what I typed. This guy knows.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

Guerrero got schooled boxing and it wasn't due to the fact he couldn't box, just that Mayweather is on another level.

Considering Guerrero is a better boxer than Alvarez, I can't see Canelo winning a round against Floyd.

Not sure what to take out of Canelo Vs Trout other than Austin being a bit stiff.
Alvarez will have to set up his straight right against Floyd and he will find that hard - because he won't want to jab once Floyd starts catching him with straight rights of his own.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

Its very intreaguing. I honestly think Alvarez will fight exactly like he did against trout. He will take plent of time off, looking for counter opportunities, and when he does throw, he'll throw with force.

It will make it very interesting because Alvarez has the power to rock floyd and force a porential stoppage!

Also, Alvarez defence was very good against Trout, what % connection rate to people expect from Floyd in this one.

I expect it to look more like the de lahoya fight, where alvarez blocks/avoids a huge portion of floyds shots, with just 1 or 2 eye catching ones landing per rounnd.

And what i like about alvarez vs trout is how, alvarez would throw hard shots aiming for Trouts Chest, as trout very slippery, he never aimed for the head, and he had huge success.

I see either a close UD either side in this one, or if anyone gets a stoppage, it will have to be canelo.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

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Guerrero got schooled boxing and it wasn't due to the fact he couldn't box, just that Mayweather is on another level.

Considering Guerrero is a better boxer than Alvarez, I can't see Canelo winning a round against Floyd.

Not sure what to take out of Canelo Vs Trout other than Austin being a bit stiff.
Alvarez will have to set up his straight right against Floyd and he will find that hard - because he won't want to jab once Floyd starts catching him with straight rights of his own.
I've got to say i can't agree with this one bit.

Did you watch alvarez vs trout.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

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Guerrero got schooled boxing and it wasn't due to the fact he couldn't box, just that Mayweather is on another level.

Considering Guerrero is a better boxer than Alvarez, I can't see Canelo winning a round against Floyd.

Not sure what to take out of Canelo Vs Trout other than Austin being a bit stiff.
Alvarez will have to set up his straight right against Floyd and he will find that hard - because he won't want to jab once Floyd starts catching him with straight rights of his own.
Guerrero had a little success firing back almost immediately after Mayweather threw a shot, which is why I said what if Alvarez were to adopt a similar gameplan, giving his physical advantages and more explosive combinations.

P4P Guerrero has proven more as a boxer in my eyes, but then you put Alvarez's physical advantages in to play and you see why he could possibly test Mayweathers skills more than Guerrero did. It's not just as simple as, Guerrero is the better boxer, Guerrero has done this, etc, it's much harder getting your skills to have an influence on the bout when in against a bigger opponent.

If the only thing you can take out of Alvarez's performance against Trout is that he was a bit stiff, I don't really know what to say.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

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Its very intreaguing. I honestly think Alvarez will fight exactly like he did against trout. He will take plent of time off, looking for counter opportunities, and when he does throw, he'll throw with force.

It will make it very interesting because Alvarez has the power to rock floyd and force a porential stoppage!

Also, Alvarez defence was very good against Trout, what % connection rate to people expect from Floyd in this one.

I expect it to look more like the de lahoya fight, where alvarez blocks/avoids a huge portion of floyds shots, with just 1 or 2 eye catching ones landing per rounnd.

And what i like about alvarez vs trout is how, alvarez would throw hard shots aiming for Trouts Chest, as trout very slippery, he never aimed for the head, and he had huge success.

I see either a close UD either side in this one, or if anyone gets a stoppage, it will have to be canelo.
Will be interesting to see if Alvarez sits back and lets Mayweather work from the front foot. I don't see Mayweather doing this though, and due to Alvarez's limited experience at this level, you'd probably see Alvarez on the front foot before he even knew it himself. Patience is a factor, and Mayweather has all the patience in the world.

I'd expect Alvarez connection rate to be down, as well as Mayweathers, a touch. Trout isn't as accurate as Mayweather.

Alvarez hasn't shown he can box that type of bout DLH did from what I've seen. But we'll see.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

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I've got to say i can't agree with this one bit.

Did you watch alvarez vs trout.
Ghost is a very good natural pure boxer. People forget that after the Berto brawl
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

That Mayweather still has amazing footwork. That's it really.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

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Originally Posted by AnthonyW View Post
...if anything?

How would Alvarez do adopting the strategy Guerrero employed for a couple of rounds? Countering the counterpuncher. Would Alvarez be capable or experienced enough to return fire immediately with one of his explosive combinations once he felt a shot land from Mayweather? He has the size advantage after all, and could possibly sustain an attack on Mayweather, taking one to return 3 or 4.

As we have seen, Alvarez puts a lot in to his offense, so much so that he needs to take a breather in between them. Would this strategy allow him to dictate his pace a little better, and not make rounds as close as they should be?

Personally (as many would agree), I think Mayweather boxes better off the back foot, lets/helps his opponent make mistakes, then punishes them. Will Mayweather almost certainly stay on the back foot in this bout due to how good Alvarez looked when he had his opponent forcing his work? Or will Mayweather pick his moments to outwork and win rounds whilst Alvarez is looking for a breather?

It's an intriguing matchup.

Offensively, Mayweather hasn't had an opponent in front of him as good as Alvarez in a long time IMO, then you take the physical advantages Alvarez will bring to the ring.
But then on the other hand, you have defensively, Alvarez has seen nothing like Mayweather. IMO, he's not just going to walk up to Mayweather and land those heavy shots. Even if he traps him in the corner, the target isn't going to be clear, size advantage or not.
Guerrero was able to counter Mayweather because of what Mayweather did. Floyd was throwing those fall in straight right hands popular against southpaws. When you reach you run the risk of being countered.

Floyd adjusted and neutralized the counter once he figured out the angles for his exit after throwing these fall in right hands. He also switched it up and began using different types of rights. Guerrero no longer had the distance to counter, or he was unable to anticipate, defend, and counter.

Alvarez isn't capable of countering with combos when he's fighting Mayweather. Marquez is a better counterpuncher and the best combination puncher yet couldn't do it.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

He'll gas even faster than usual if he's missing combos. So much energy will be spent to catch himself and maintaining his balance.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

Alvarez should use the DLH and Cotto fights

Both jabbed their way in but kept defense in mind DLH picked off a lot of punches with his gloves

Canelo should jab and move in the center of the ring looking to pick his battles and not spend too much time in front of Floyd

Floyd at 154 vs the bigger guys has a tendency to lay on the ropes, he did vs Cotto a lot and for some moments vs Oscar where Oscar would do these body flurries on the ropes

Floyd never goes into the corner and always gives himself an escape route so Canelo has to be mindful that Floyd doesnt come off the ropes and have Canelo trapped in the corner, Floyd does this a lot

Compared to Cotto and DLH Canelo may not have a better jab but he hooks to the liver well and has a better right hand than both those fighters and faster hands and better punch variety

Canelo should take his time vary his shots feint and go to the head and body

the problem I see is like DLH and Cotto who were pretty much worn out by round 9 is that Canelo will probably fight to a close score until about round 8 or 9 when Floyds conditioning and experience take effect
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

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Alvarez should use the DLH and Cotto fights

Both jabbed their way in but kept defense in mind DLH picked off a lot of punches with his gloves

Canelo should jab and move in the center of the ring looking to pick his battles and not spend too much time in front of Floyd

Floyd at 154 vs the bigger guys has a tendency to lay on the ropes, he did vs Cotto a lot and for some moments vs Oscar where Oscar would do these body flurries on the ropes

Floyd never goes into the corner and always gives himself an escape route so Canelo has to be mindful that Floyd doesnt come off the ropes and have Canelo trapped in the corner, Floyd does this a lot

Compared to Cotto and DLH Canelo may not have a better jab but he hooks to the liver well and has a better right hand than both those fighters and faster hands and better punch variety

Canelo should take his time vary his shots feint and go to the head and body

the problem I see is like DLH and Cotto who were pretty much worn out by round 9 is that Canelo will probably fight to a close score until about round 8 or 9 when Floyds conditioning and experience take effect
excellent point. What's overlooked is how Oscar's skills at picking off shots made Floyd get creative about setting up his offense.

Floyd will have an easier time landing on Gasnelo as long as he keeps his jab working and goes to the body, which he has greater incentive to given Alvarez shit stamina
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: What can both Alvarez and Mayweather take from the others previous bout...

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Guerrero was able to counter Mayweather because of what Mayweather did. Floyd was throwing those fall in straight right hands popular against southpaws. When you reach you run the risk of being countered.

Floyd adjusted and neutralized the counter once he figured out the angles for his exit after throwing these fall in right hands. He also switched it up and began using different types of rights. Guerrero no longer had the distance to counter, or he was unable to anticipate, defend, and counter.

Alvarez isn't capable of countering with combos when he's fighting Mayweather. Marquez is a better counterpuncher and the best combination puncher yet couldn't do it.
I was simply talking about the game plan Guerrero adopted, not necessarily why he adopted it, or why he had success. I realise why Guerrero had success, but that's not what I'm really going for with this thread. I'm asking can either boxer take anything from their opponents previous bout. It just so happens that both their opponents happened to be southpaws.

That last paragraph is ignoring a number of factors though. Marquez is a better counter puncher, but he is also smaller than Alvarez and Mayweather, he was also jumping 2 weight classes. That bout doesn't hold much relevance in comparison to what Alvarez could do in terms of counterpunching. Alvarez is roughly the same size in terms of height, but much physically bigger. This alone allows him a better chance against Mayweather than Marquez did.
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