ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year" - Page 7

purephase · 11-14-2012, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lester proctor

OK we're almost eye to eye. Khan is obviously a way better win than JCC or Macklin, esp given the odds.

If you're using odds as the criterion, there's no one Martinez could have fought at middleweight this year against whom he'd be an underdog. Pacquiao was a favorite over Bradley but I wouldn't argue that win was automatically less impressive than Garcia's over Khan just because Garcia wasn't recognized as the top guy in his division.

Obviously that situation isn't parallel to this one since most had Khan more highly rated than Chavez. I would note however that Chavez was coming off the best performance of his career, while Khan was coming off a performance in which even if you think he was treated unfairly on the cards, he still didn't look as good as many had thought. I'd give the edge to the Khan win but I don't think it was leaps and bounds better.

Quote:

Garcia needed very little extra to match those 2, and even Morales 1 would have been enough.

Completely disagree here. At the risk of going back down the ratings rabbit hole, two top 3-7 division wins isn't necessarily weaker than one top 3 and one top 10, especially since the talent pool isn't as significantly deeper at 140 than 160 as it was in the past.

Quote:

Morales 2 also counts some, the odds were closer than Martinez Macklin.

I believe they were around the same.

Barrera · 11-14-2012, 01:50 AM

martinez , ward maybe donaire ...

ima throw up if they give it to garcia

pejevan · 11-14-2012, 02:10 AM

Anyone who actually mentions ward is an idiot!

For beating a weight-drained, overhyped Dawson?

It is either Viloria or Donaire. But Donaire is by far the leading candidate.

Donaire has 4 fights : Vazquez, Mathebula, Nishioka and finally Arce.

Viloria : Segura (end of 2011), Romero, Marquez

The Mangler · 11-14-2012, 02:14 AM

I guess give it to Donaire. Arce don't mean a whole lot. But beatin Math and Nish is pretty good. Not his fault Nish looked flat.

lester proctor · 11-14-2012, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purephase

If you're using odds as the criterion, there's no one Martinez could have fought at middleweight this year against whom he'd be an underdog. Pacquiao was a favorite over Bradley but I wouldn't argue that win was automatically less impressive than Garcia's over Khan just because Garcia wasn't recognized as the top guy in his division.

Obviously that situation isn't parallel to this one since most had Khan more highly rated than Chavez. I would note however that Chavez was coming off the best performance of his career, while Khan was coming off a performance in which even if you think he was treated unfairly on the cards, he still didn't look as good as many had thought. I'd give the edge to the Khan win but I don't think it was leaps and bounds better.

Completely disagree here. At the risk of going back down the ratings rabbit hole, two top 3-7 division wins isn't necessarily weaker than one top 3 and one top 10, especially since the talent pool isn't as significantly deeper at 140 than 160 as it was in the past.
I believe they were around the same.

I think beating wide odds is a plus when talking FOTY, all else equal. But forget that, we agree Khan is better than Chavez by a bit. Resume, talent, top level experience, p4p rating, everything but the chin. Peterson >> Lee, losing a shady decision to a juiced LP won't swing the balance. You think Macklin outweighs that + 2 Morales fights, I think even Morales 1 would keep Garcia ahead, so would have any fringe top ten win at 140. Matthysse got a ton of traction from Soto, who's no better than Morales (if fresher). And Macklin is just not that great of a win, a mismatch on paper. I understand Martinez will be favored wide against any middle, nowhere near that wide. Being pedantic, wider than Garcia Morales 2, no?

lester proctor · 11-14-2012, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pejevan

Anyone who actually mentions ward is an idiot!

For beating a weight-drained, overhyped Dawson?

It is either Viloria or Donaire. But Donaire is by far the leading candidate.

Donaire has 4 fights : Vazquez, Mathebula, Nishioka and finally Arce.

Viloria : Segura (end of 2011), Romero, Marquez

If it was Fighter of the past 12 months, Viloria would be a good candidate. As it is, not enough

megavolt · 11-14-2012, 02:43 AM

Donaire, easily

Leonit · 11-14-2012, 03:12 AM

Donaire if he beats Arce and it's not even close in my mind

Leonit · 11-14-2012, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pejevan

Anyone who actually mentions ward is an idiot!

For beating a weight-drained, overhyped Dawson?

It is either Viloria or Donaire. But Donaire is by far the leading candidate.

Donaire has 4 fights : Vazquez, Mathebula, Nishioka and finally Arce.

Viloria : Segura (end of 2011), Romero, Marquez

Viloria hasn't beaten Marquez and might lose, Donaire will smoke Arce.

silenc · 11-14-2012, 08:56 AM

Donaire!

Swollen Liver · 11-14-2012, 09:06 AM

Danny Garcia!

Boxalot · 11-14-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJS19

Martinez
Ward
Donaire

Howabout poster of the year? Bogotazo.

Newcomer of the year? Boxalot

Fuckoff and never come back of the year? Skittlez/Felix Trinidad

Thanks for the shoutout, but i have to disagree with you and others mentioning Ward for FOTY.

He's had one fight this year, and it was against a corpse who hadn't made 168 for 6 years and had never had a meaningful fight at the weight. Both Chad and Ward are fine P4P fighters, but i really can't class it as a notable win. In fact, i'm actually a big fan of Ward and have been touting him as a future P4P #1 since the Kessler fight, but i really can't give him a great deal of credit for beating someone so far out of their comfort zone.

The fighter of the year is Donaire for me. Garcia, Matthysse, Martinez, Mares and - if he beats Mack - Froch have all had fine years, but Donaire stands out imo.

Kissan · 11-14-2012, 09:52 AM

Good poll btw!

Hatesrats · 11-14-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kissan

Good poll btw!

Hold your load, I'm gathering 411... Poll cummin'

persianprince · 11-14-2012, 10:55 AM

No way Ward should be there, fought a weight drained hype job. I like Ward, but Dawson has never fought a guy at his age, the one time he did he lost clearly & he only fought once this year.
Martinez: Stopped Macklin the 11th round. The Knife was robbed against Sturm & stopped Alcine in one round, so it's an underrated win imo. Then he humiliated Chavez JR. in a embarrassing way and only retards want's too see a rematch, Martinez did not hold on when he got knock downed he stood his ground and fought. If it wasn't for the 12th round Chavez Jr. would never-ever be the same.
But in reality i'm voting for Garcia, beat Morales, was a HUGE underdog against Khan & completely destroys him, then he shuts Morales up in a brutal fashion.

View Poll Results: ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year"
Nonito Donaire	80	30.42%
Andre Ward	35	13.31%
Sergio Martinez	36	13.69%
Danny Garcia	57	21.67%
Brian Viloria	7	2.66%
Abner Mares	6	2.28%
Robert Guererro	4	1.52%
Adrien Broner	11	4.18%
Other	27	10.27%
Voters: 263. You may not vote on this poll

11-14-2012, 01:50 AM	#92
Barrera Cotto Crabwalk Enthusiast ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 1,292 vCash: 500	Re: ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year" martinez , ward maybe donaire ... ima throw up if they give it to garcia
Top

11-14-2012, 02:10 AM	#93
pejevan inmate No. 1363917 East Side Guru Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,359 vCash: 1343	Re: ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year" Anyone who actually mentions ward is an idiot! For beating a weight-drained, overhyped Dawson? It is either Viloria or Donaire. But Donaire is by far the leading candidate. Donaire has 4 fights : Vazquez, Mathebula, Nishioka and finally Arce. Viloria : Segura (end of 2011), Romero, Marquez
Top

11-14-2012, 02:14 AM	#94
The Mangler Gatekeeper ESB Full Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 394 vCash: 500	Re: ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year" I guess give it to Donaire. Arce don't mean a whole lot. But beatin Math and Nish is pretty good. Not his fault Nish looked flat.
Top

11-14-2012, 02:43 AM	#97
megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing East Side Guru Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,969 vCash: 75	Re: ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year" Donaire, easily
Top

11-14-2012, 03:12 AM	#98
Leonit Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Todorov UD Maywether Posts: 5,053 vCash: 75	Re: ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year" Donaire if he beats Arce and it's not even close in my mind
Top

11-14-2012, 08:56 AM	#100
silenc dropout bear ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 564 vCash: 18000	Re: ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year" Donaire!
Top

11-14-2012, 09:06 AM	#101
Swollen Liver Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 644 vCash: 552	Re: ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year" Danny Garcia!
Top

11-14-2012, 09:52 AM	#103
Kissan Joined ESB before Superai ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 3,014 vCash: 75	Re: ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year" Good poll btw!
Top

11-14-2012, 10:55 AM	#105
persianprince Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,657 vCash: 500	Re: ESB's 2012 "Fighter Of The Year" No way Ward should be there, fought a weight drained hype job. I like Ward, but Dawson has never fought a guy at his age, the one time he did he lost clearly & he only fought once this year. Martinez: Stopped Macklin the 11th round. The Knife was robbed against Sturm & stopped Alcine in one round, so it's an underrated win imo. Then he humiliated Chavez JR. in a embarrassing way and only retards want's too see a rematch, Martinez did not hold on when he got knock downed he stood his ground and fought. If it wasn't for the 12th round Chavez Jr. would never-ever be the same. But in reality i'm voting for Garcia, beat Morales, was a HUGE underdog against Khan & completely destroys him, then he shuts Morales up in a brutal fashion.
Top