What fights can I see the best version of Ali/Clay there ever was?

[bowerboy]

That Terrel fight made me just realise something special about Ali that I never realised before...you see a lot of fighters try and emulate Ali by holding their hands low but they only ever do when they are out of range...Ali did it when he was well within range! Big difference.

[Senor Pepe']

Muhammad Ali vs. Buster Mathis

That is a nice tape to view always around the Holidays.

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Ok, so you're saying prior to Manila, Ali hadn't taken much punishment apart from the 27 rounds with Frazier and the 24 with Norton ?
That's a lot of punishment right there.
I'd also point to the 15 rounds with Oscar Bonavena, where he absorbed a fair bit of punishment, and the 8 rounds with Foreman.
That adds up to 74 tough rounds against big highly-ranked opponents.
And even guys like Jurgen Blin were getting to him.

You actually make quite a lot of sense, before adding that absolute nonsense.

That's you in a nutshell when talking about Ali, more or less. You're not totally clouded by unreasonable hate like Pepe and others, but every now and then your dislike for the man makes you spew nonsense.

For a while, SRL was the fighter there were the most stupid, biased posts about. But with Redrooster gone, and the emergence of BillB and Pepe, Ali is back as the undisputed nr 1 in this regard.

The threads about Ali are always shit nowadays. Doesn't bother me that much, since I'm pretty talked out about him anyhow.

[Bokaj]

To answer the thread question: agianst Patterson, Williams, Terrell and Foley.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Bokaj

You actually make quite a lot of sense, before adding that absolute nonsense.

That's you in a nutshell when talking about Ali, more or less. You're not totally clouded by unreasonable hate like Pepe and others, but every now and then your dislike for the man makes you spew nonsense.

For a while, SRL was the fighter there were the most stupid, biased posts about. But with Redrooster gone, and the emergence of BillB and Pepe, Ali is back as the undisputed nr 1 in this regard.

The threads about Ali are always shit nowadays. Doesn't bother me that much, since I'm pretty talked out about him anyhow.

I'm not sure why you post these attacks on (or 'analyses of') me every now and then. I'm sure you've done it before, out of the blue. You'd probably be better off analysing your own feeling regarding Ali, or whatever. I'm a rather dispassionate boxing fan here to talk boxing. Strange, I know .. but anyway....

I think Jurgen Blin landed a few punches on a 1972 Ali that he wouldn't have had a hope of landing on a 1966-'67 Ali.
I'm sure many would agree.
You disagree ?

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

I'm not sure why you post these attacks on (or 'analyses of') me every now and then. I'm sure you've done it before, out of the blue. You'd probably be better off analysing your own feeling regarding Ali, or whatever. I'm a rather dispassionate boxing fan here to talk boxing. Strange, I know .. but anyway....

I think Jurgen Blin landed a few punches on a 1972 Ali that he wouldn't have had a hope of landing on a 1966-'67 Ali.
I'm sure many would agree.
You disagree ?

Blin landed nothing of significance on Ali in 1971, unlike what you claimed. He threw some desperate hooks, but Ali blocked, slipped or rode them.

But yes, he'd land even less on the 1966-67 version. As would Frazier, Norton and everyone else.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Bokaj

Blin landed nothing of significance on Ali in 1971, unlike what you claimed. He threw some desperate hooks, but Ali blocked, slipped or rode them.

I never used the term "significant" ... but every extra punch a fighter has to absorb is significant. As I've already stated. In sparring too.

But yes, he'd land even less on the 1966-67 version. As would Frazier, Norton and everyone else.

So, you agree with me.

There was really no need for all that other stuff was there, my friend.

[nikrj]

Ali vs Williams, best Ali performance.

[DDDUUDDDEE]

Originally Posted by DDDUUDDDEE

Hey look, it's Senor Pepe. On time like a geriatric vulture circling around the rotting flesh that is another Ali thread.

Hahaha, I'm so funny. And ***y. Plus I have a massive dick.

[gentleman jim]

Ali against Folley looked pretty impressive as well. The final volley that Ali landed to end the bout was incredibly fast and laser accurate. Zora was no slouch but it seemed like Ali toyed with him. Ali of the late 60's was probably the best version of him.

[Bummy Davis]

The best Ali against his very best opponent for the 15 round championship level was Joe Frazier FOTC, Ali looked good against Terrel and Cleveland Williams but lets face it what would Vlad Klitschko do to those versions and those men were not in the class of the relentless Frazier, Ali was stronger when he came back and I dont think the Ali that fought Terrel or Williams was strong enough for a pressure left-hooker like Smoking Joe in the FOTC

[Bokaj]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

The best Ali against his very best opponent for the 15 round championship level was Joe Frazier FOTC

That wasn't even the best version of Ali against Frazier. Quite possibly not even the second best version against Frazier. I actually think Manilla Ali would do a better job. Not necissarily win, but probably do a better job.

[Bokaj]

I'm watching the first Chuvalo fight again. What a brilliant performance by Ali. Don't watch him much nowadays, so when I return to his fights it's a bit like watching them with new eyes. Same when I rewatched the Williams fight earlier today.

Yes, two limited opponents, but still the things Ali does...And he does it so naturallly and effortslessly.

I love the Arguellos of this world. Craftmanlike fighters that are so well-schooled, experienced and disciplined that they bring their craft up to true artistry. But there is also something special with the natural talents, such as Loche, Ali, Benitez, McCallum and Toney. The smoothness and effortlessness in their movements... You can't entirely learn that. Either you have it or you don't.

[BillB]

Ali-Norton III
Ali-Young

Ali was unbeatable in those fights. I'd rather not say why, but he was unbeatable.

[xRedx]

Originally Posted by dyna

Williams had been inactive the entire year of 1965 while recovering from gunshot wounds he suffered at the hands of a police officer arising out of a traffic stop. Boxing reporter Jerry Izenberg adds "...shot for no apparent reason." Williams was shot with a .357 Magnum in the abdomen, barely survived, and suffered permanent kidney damage, a loss of over ten feet of his small intestine, and nerve damage from the bullet which affected his left leg above the knee, causing it to atrophy as a result. Williams didn't however bear the policeman any malice. Some thought he had resisted arrest on suspected drunk driving.

EXACTLY its annoying when people give credit for the williams fight because williams was half paralyzed.