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Old 11-15-2012, 04:14 AM   #121
Manning
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Originally Posted by KidDynamite View Post
Pre Tyson Ruddock would destroy Byrd, Gaye, and Chagaev

So would Golota


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Old 11-15-2012, 04:25 AM   #122
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Was actually agreeing with Ruddock. "He didn't"... (have much left).
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:36 AM   #123
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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i'm talking about wlad . vitali picking shannon's corpse for a title fight has nothing to do with wlad . wlad and vitali are two different people

2 of those HOF were washed up . and i already conceded that lewis was head and shoulders above vitali in that fight , his best win , and the only fight that puts him above wlad .


golota and ruddock are quality fighters now ? are they better than chagaev , haye , byrd .. ?
How on earth do you come to the conclusion that Holyfield was washed up in the Lewis fights?
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:38 AM   #124
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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and ruddock himself condeded that he had ' nothing left ' after the tyson fight .
He "conceded" or he "used an excuse"??
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:46 AM   #125
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

Lewis' defining fights were against washed up greats who went on to lose to the shittiest of bums.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:03 AM   #126
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Old 11-15-2012, 06:13 AM   #127
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Lewis' defining fights were against washed up greats who went on to lose to the shittiest of bums.
Vitali was washed up?

Holyfield was washed up?

Also the version of Tyson that Lewis beat was still MILES better than the Mormeck, Rahman,Thompson, and Austin that Wlad fought
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:41 AM   #128
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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It is, and a lot of it's down to available selection, but to discerning eyes Lennox (especially the post-Kronking finished article) is also simply better than WK (even the post-Kronking finished article).
He really isn't. He is certainly more of a natural fighter, much more than Wlad, but this does NOT make up for the technical advantages and physical attributes Wlad has over him. They are quite close, but Wlad has the edge.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:50 AM   #129
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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He really isn't. He is certainly more of a natural fighter, much more than Wlad, but this does NOT make up for the technical advantages and physical attributes Wlad has over him. They are quite close, but Wlad has the edge.

What physical advantages?

They're basically the same weight and height.

Technically, Lewis had a greater range of punches.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:59 AM   #130
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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What physical advantages?

They're basically the same weight and height.

Technically, Lewis had a greater range of punches.
Lewis does have a greater range of punches, but for big men who often enjoy a height advantage, the most important order of punches are jab, straight, left hook. Lewis is a good technical fighter, Wlad just does everything "cleaner". His straight is straighter, his jab is crisper, his hook is faster, and can be varied more.

Physically, Wlad has significantly quicker feet, slightly faster hands, I and many others believe more power, and seems to be able to maintain a high level of focus mentally longer than Lewis. Lewis often seemed to tire mentally during fights, which made him sloppy and left him open for big shots, or allowed him to be dragged into wars.

Again, Lewis, though he has a mediocre chin, is a more natural fighter. He doesn't mind getting messy, he doesn't mind taking a few shots as much as he should for his chins sake. Wlad, though he doesn't react as well, has learned to calm down after he does get shaken up, and is significantly harder to hit than Lewis was.

Considering all these things, I give a slight overall advantage to Wlad, but like I said, it's very close.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:28 AM   #131
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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You do realize that Wlad stopped Botha a year and a half after Lewis did, right? So... you must rate that win very highly for Wlad?

Let's take a look at Holyfield's "big wins" over those great HOF fighters that you speak of...

Tyson - was a completely shell of a fighter by the time that Lewis fought him. Tyson went on to get knocked out by Danny Williams in 4 rounds and knocked out by Kevin McBride in 6. This win means less than Holmes win over Ali.

Holyfield - Not only did Lewis BARELY beat Holyfield in their 2nd fight. Holyfield was in steep decline from the Holyfield of the early to mid-90's. The same Holyfield went on to have the fight of his life against John Ruiz. 3 TIMES IN A ROW! Was then embarrassed by Chris Byrd and knocked out by James Toney. You really hold that win in high regard on Holyfield's name?

Those 2 wins don't mean much. If you really give a guy that much credit for beating a couple of guys who were formerly great fighters... then I would love to see how you view wins like I mentioned before... Holmes over Ali, Marciano over Louis, Tyson over Holmes, ect... NONE of those fighters get real recognition for those wins. For good reason too... because those guys weren't close to being the same fighters anymore.

The truth is that Lewis never fought the best fighters of his own era while they were at the top of their game. Lewis only rose to the top after the true stars of that era had burnt out. During the 90's the division was dominated by Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Moorer, and old Foreman. Lewis didn't make his move until those stars faded out and then he picked up a couple pointless wins over what was left of Holyfield and Tyson.

Then you pump up his wins over Golota and Rudduck. Two guys who were hyped up to be more than they actually were. Two guys who went on to achieve nothing before or after their losses to Lennox Lewis. A couple of solid wins, definitely nothing spectacular. Golota had a knack for being blown out early and even though he was given multiple title opportunities on his name power, he never won a single title fight. Rudduck simply never was that good. Rudduck was already knocked out by Tyson and even David Jaco... who was not only knocked out in 3 rounds 2 months before he fought Rudduck... but also went on to lose 15 of his next 16 fights after he beat Rudduck.... while being knocked out in 12 of those 16 fights. Now, a loss like this can be swept under the rug if Rudduck had overcome it to have a great career... but he simply never managed to beat good fighters... much like Golota.
Good post. Some of Lennox's wins are overrated.

Although in fairness, he was young and pretty much untested when he fought Ruddock, and he blew him out spectacularly.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:48 AM   #132
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Originally Posted by Slyk View Post
Lewis does have a greater range of punches, but for big men who often enjoy a height advantage, the most important order of punches are jab, straight, left hook. Lewis is a good technical fighter, Wlad just does everything "cleaner". His straight is straighter, his jab is crisper, his hook is faster, and can be varied more.

Physically, Wlad has significantly quicker feet, slightly faster hands, I and many others believe more power, and seems to be able to maintain a high level of focus mentally longer than Lewis. Lewis often seemed to tire mentally during fights, which made him sloppy and left him open for big shots, or allowed him to be dragged into wars.

Again, Lewis, though he has a mediocre chin, is a more natural fighter. He doesn't mind getting messy, he doesn't mind taking a few shots as much as he should for his chins sake. Wlad, though he doesn't react as well, has learned to calm down after he does get shaken up, and is significantly harder to hit than Lewis was.

Considering all these things, I give a slight overall advantage to Wlad, but like I said, it's very close.
Wlad only has 3 DECENT punches....Jab, Right Hand, Left Hook. You need more if your facing another skilled big man such as Vitali, Lennox or Bowe.


Lennox has ..

1. Jab
2. Straight Right
3. Left Hook
4. Short Distance Right hook
5. OverHand Right
6. Uppercut from hell

Wlad cant fight at short distance and hed get mauled to death in the holds just like His brother and Michael Grant did.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:11 AM   #133
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Originally Posted by Slyk View Post
Wlad, though he doesn't react as well, has learned to clinch for dear life after he does get shaken up, and is significantly harder to hit than Lewis was because he faces terrible opposition.
Fixed that for you. The rest is laughable, honestly. Lewis wasn't always the plodding behemoth that he ended his career as. He was just as fast on his feet as Wlad when he was in his prime, but he's always been more willing to engage and get his opponent out early. As for Wlad having more power, Lewis was ktfo out of guys a level or two above the opposition Wlad takes 6-12 rounds to beat.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:19 AM   #134
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
Good post. Some of Lennox's wins are overrated.

Although in fairness, he was young and pretty much untested when he fought Ruddock, and he blew him out spectacularly.
It's not a good post, it's awful, biased Klitard rubbish. According to Klitard logic there are no ATGs apart from the brothers because everyone else lost to fighters from previous eras and they were smaller, while conveniently overlooking the facts that Wlad himself has lost to B level fighters and a bona fide journeyman, and Vitali lost to a fat, old version of one of those ATGs they dismiss so easily. If Holyfield and Tyson were so shit, how come they lasted longer than Vitali did against Lewis?
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:27 AM   #135
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Default Re: lennox's resume is hardly better than wlad's

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If Holyfield and Tyson were so shit, how come they lasted longer than Vitali did against Lewis?


That's a pretty good point.
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