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Old 02-03-2008, 05:43 PM   #16
Beebs
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

Mir was just fine
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

i would think herring would be another mir for bein a first oponent.

he's got too much experience and he's proven he can deal with a strong athletic wrestler when he beat ol tom erikson
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

i woulda enjoyed a fight between brock and fedor
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

ufc is messing up bigtime. they are promoting the stars like crazy then they give them the worst possible matchup ever. they did it with cro cop and shogun. when they could have easily milked the advertising they gave by handing them tomato cans to build a name.
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

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Originally Posted by theunderdog
ufc is messing up bigtime. they are promoting the stars like crazy then they give them the worst possible matchup ever. they did it with cro cop and shogun. when they could have easily milked the advertising they gave by handing them tomato cans to build a name.
It's nice that they actually put some fights together, though.

UFC champions actually have to defend their belt against legit contenders most of the time.
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:09 AM   #21
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

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Originally Posted by theunderdog
ufc is messing up bigtime. they are promoting the stars like crazy then they give them the worst possible matchup ever. they did it with cro cop and shogun. when they could have easily milked the advertising they gave by handing them tomato cans to build a name.

A ton of people watched all of those fights.

Not to mention that CroCop and Shogun were both big favorites.

And more to the point, why does anybody deserve to be babysat?
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:32 AM   #22
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

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A ton of people watched all of those fights.

Not to mention that CroCop and Shogun were both big favorites.

And more to the point, why does anybody deserve to be babysat?
i was looking at it from a business standpoint.

look at cro cop. fine, he lost a shoker to gonzaga. but then in his comeback fight. they chose the worst possible opponent for cro cop in kongo. now no one will want to see cro cop anymore. he was shot, yes, but the ufc could have more money in him if they brought him along well.

then for shogun, he was portayed as a beast coming from pride then he gets dominated and choked out by forrest. do you think the time for the signing and promotion of shogun was worth it? hell no.


the ufc wanted lesnar to be the next big thing. they wanted him to the the poster boy for mma. they have invested huge money in him. then they gave him a bad match up in mir and he tapped out. was the promotions worth it? nope.
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:41 AM   #23
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

Who should CroCop have fought? Can't give him a grappler or thats a bad matchup because hes a striker, and you also can't give him a striker who he should have outstuck? Kongo wasn't exactly setting the world on fire. I don't think any Japanese prowrestlers or Mexicans with masks were available.

I'm not so sure the UFC didn't "want" Forrest or Mir to win, both are known amongst causaul fans, both validate the UFC fighters, Lesnar losing goes a long way to show what the sport is really about.

I really don't think the UFC cares one way or another to be honest, they want people to buy the fights and they have proven they can do that with just about anybody, they have a strong desire to legitimize themselves as a true competitive sport instead of a spectacle and have done a great job; they just want everybody to put on exciting fights, anybody can be sold.
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:47 AM   #24
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

I tell you..I would have put Brock against Tim ...that would have been genius...Get Tim out of the UFC..great PR move...a Brock win against Sylvia would have been front page material..its a cant lose
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:10 AM   #25
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beebs
Who should CroCop have fought? Can't give him a grappler or thats a bad matchup because hes a striker, and you also can't give him a striker who he should have outstuck? Kongo wasn't exactly setting the world on fire. I don't think any Japanese prowrestlers or Mexicans with masks were available.
A grappler isn't a bad matchup for Cro Cop at all, as he has vastly superior striking and excellent takedown defence (even if it didn't quite work out for him against Gonzaga). Stylistically, a kickboxer is the worst matchup for Cro Cop. It doesn't matter how much he trains his jiu jitsu or his sprawl, a fight against a fellow striker will always turn into a kickboxing match for him, and years of cross training has seriously diminished the pure striking skills he had in his K1 days. That's why Cro Cop can beat Barnett 3 times, Barnett can take Hunt down and sub him in seconds, but a fight between Cro Cop and Hunt is just a K1 bout with 4oz gloves.

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I'm not so sure the UFC didn't "want" Forrest or Mir to win, both are known amongst causaul fans, both validate the UFC fighters, Lesnar losing goes a long way to show what the sport is really about.
Lesnar was definitely being billed to win this fight. He was the highest paid fighter on the card and received by FAR the most pre-event hype. The UFC were trying to build a star in a division that currently has none, but yet again, poor matchmaking ****ed it up. Personally I don't give a **** if Lesnar wins or loses, but the UFC does, and matching him against Mir was an awful way to try and achieve their goal.

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I really don't think the UFC cares one way or another to be honest, they want people to buy the fights and they have proven they can do that with just about anybody, they have a strong desire to legitimize themselves as a true competitive sport instead of a spectacle and have done a great job; they just want everybody to put on exciting fights, anybody can be sold.
Yes, you're right, no one at the Zuffa cares about money, they're just here to put on good fights

All naivety aside, the UFC needs stars to sell PPV's. It's no coincidence that their largest gates and highest PPV buy rates have come from cards featuring guys like Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture and Tito Ortiz. Having a big name star headlining the event is the difference between Zuffa (who exist to make money) making a few million and a few tens of millions.

The perfect opponent for Lesnar would have been Kongo. He has good name recognition, yet with no takedown defence and no ground game, is tailor made for someone with Brock's wrestling credentials (just look at his fight with Marrero). Had he fought Kongo and won, the hype surrounding him would have been off the charts ("This guy can beat Fedor!!") and the interest (and therefore buy rates) for his next fight have reflected that.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:51 AM   #26
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

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Originally Posted by theunderdog
i was looking at it from a business standpoint.

look at cro cop. fine, he lost a shoker to gonzaga. but then in his comeback fight. they chose the worst possible opponent for cro cop in kongo. now no one will want to see cro cop anymore. he was shot, yes, but the ufc could have more money in him if they brought him along well.
That is ridiculous Kongo the worst opponent for Crocop? They gave Crocop a believed to be sub-par average kickboxer who was slow and lumbering. He was the perfect opponent for Crocop to crush.
And Crocop isn't 'shot' he's only 32, same age as Kongo. So when a fighter loses he's shot, but when he wins he's in his prime? Stop making excuses for him. ESB logic for ya.

Quote:
then for shogun, he was portayed as a beast coming from pride then he gets dominated and choked out by forrest. do you think the time for the signing and promotion of shogun was worth it? hell no.
Wow...blame the UFC for Shogun losing and getting dominated by Forrest Griffin

Quote:
the ufc wanted lesnar to be the next big thing. they wanted him to the the poster boy for mma. they have invested huge money in him. then they gave him a bad match up in mir and he tapped out. was the promotions worth it? nope.
I think they wanted to promote him to get WWE fans to buy the PPV but also prove a point that not anyone can just walk in and win, no matter how big and athletic.
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:07 AM   #27
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

Somebody he could win. Small list but maybe Larry David.


Nah seriously I would like to see him in a couple of warm up fights before been chucked in with another experienced fighter. Put him in with that guy who lost to the big bold guy earlier on the show. I can not think of his name without looking it up but it began with B.
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:31 PM   #28
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

You beat me to it kingpwc.

Mir was the perfect choice.

Losing to Mir as an MMA novice was no surprise. If he lost to a wrestler or even a striker, his stock would have plummeted.
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:49 PM   #29
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

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Originally Posted by chimba
I tell you..I would have put Brock against Tim ...that would have been genius...Get Tim out of the UFC..great PR move...a Brock win against Sylvia would have been front page material..its a cant lose
i think tim handles lesnar realtively easily....
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: Who would have been your preferred 1st opponent for Brock?

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Originally Posted by ajc1984
Lesnar was definitely being billed to win this fight. He was the highest paid fighter on the card and received by FAR the most pre-event hype. The UFC were trying to build a star in a division that currently has none, but yet again, poor matchmaking ****ed it up. Personally I don't give a **** if Lesnar wins or loses, but the UFC does, and matching him against Mir was an awful way to try and achieve their goal.



Yes, you're right, no one at the Zuffa cares about money, they're just here to put on good fights
How on earth do you know that "the ufc" wanted Brock to win, Mir winning pretty much validated several years of the UFC HW division, and now the people that tuned in to see Lesnar will be interested in the sport and watch it regardless of who is fighting. Not to mention do you think that the people in charge of making that fight didn't know that Mir subbing him almost right away was at least a strong possibility? Do you think they are that stupid that they just thought Lesnar would run through Mir no problem?

Stars can only be formed by good fights, no matter how hard you hype somebody you can only get people to watch that person once if they don't put on a good show. Now all the people that knew Brock know Brock and Mir, and more importantly, know the ufc and mma. The sport is what will always be the biggest draw long term, stars come and go, but the brand always must be taken care of.

Just look at the fight that was the perfect storm of publicity for the UFC and started the mainstream attention, Bonnar vs Griffin, who knew these guys before the fight? Why did the people watch next time? To see Forrest and Bonnar fight? No, to see another fight that was that brutal and exciting.
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