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Old 10-21-2013, 11:54 PM   #1
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Cool Joe louis vs max schmeling III

question does anybody know one who went to the second fight.

i also know esb has a few older posters did anyone go the fight.

also why was there never a third fight?
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling III

Keep in mind that Louis-Schmeling II occurred over 75 years ago, so you'd be most likely be looking for second hand accounts. Burt Bienstock appears to be the poster with the earliest eyewitness accounts of historic bouts on this site, and grew up in that area as a second generation boxing fan after his father.

WW II scotched any chance of a rubber match. Earlier, the politics of Nazi belligerence and bellicosity cost a guiltless Schmeling the first shot at Braddock.

It took over a year for Max to return to action after Louis II, but when he did, he looked very impressive in his own first round stoppage win of Adolf Heuser to finally attain the EBU HW Title, with the war now two just months away.

But in an alternative universe with no Hitler, no WW II, and no jingoistic acrimony, I think Schmeling would have reestablished himself after Louis II as a dominant IBC/EBU and BDB HW Champion. The BDB Title itself would have held some merit with the likes of Neusel, Vogt, Kreitz, Lazek, Witt and later Ten Hoff [who may well have turned professional earlier w/out WW II] among a fine crop of German HWs. Musina, Sys and Tandberg, were Max's wartime contenders and successors of the European championship, and I just don't see any of them defeating Schmeling during the early 1940s. Nor do what would appear to have been the best of the UK wartime crop [Jack London, Len Harvey, Bruce Woodkock, Freddie Mills] have been able to upend Max.

After Louis-Schmeling II, it might take a while for a rubber match to become viable, but I believe Max, remaining an active European champion with around three scheduled 15 rounders annually from 1940 to 1942, might have eventually returned to the States to reclaim top contention against a failed Louis challenger. Max Baer quit against Louis in 1935, yet that one was seriously considered a viable rematch in 1940 and 1941, between the Larruper's win over Galento and career ending rematch loss to Nova. Unlike Maxie, Schmeling held a knockout win over Joe, and DID NOT QUIT in their rematch, still in the process of trying to regain his feet from a crouching four point stance when the towel from his corner flew into the ring before his eyes.

Schmeling didn't have a terrific performance against Maxie in 1933, and a 1940 or 1941 reversal of outcome from their FOTY might have put the German back in the picture for a rubber match, if he proved he could avenge a knockout defeat with a decision win. [I can't see him ever stopping the Larruper, but a verdict over the limit would be feasible.]

Exactly how good would Schmeling have been as an older boxer? Well again, he came back impressively with his televised one punch knockout of Heuser before 70,000 [replayed in slow motion to a national audience from multiple angles], then recovered from very serious war wounds at Crete to make a successful post war comeback in his 40s to regain his financial footing. Obviously, living almost to the century mark offers more proof of his strong constitution and physical resilience. His intelligence has never been questioned.

No, he does not defeat Louis in a third match of course, but neither does he get blown out this time, being well prepared for another early storm. Typically a cautiously slow starter, he WAS capable of getting out of the gate quickly when there was clearly a need to do so. Following Sharkey II, he decked Walker in the opening stanza to establish himself right away, as well as doing something to Heuser which nobody else had been able to manage in the Rhine Bulldog's previous 75 bouts, completely put out his lights, and with a single punch in the opening round.

Putting the Heuser bombing in better perspective, this was somebody who had a rough 1933 in the States with guys like Rosenbloom and Broulliard. Back in Germany to stay beginning in 1934 however, he went on a 45-2-1 tear going into Schmeling. He avenged a DQ loss with two wins over Merlo, a draw with a return KO over Witt, and a ten round loss to Karel Sys with a 12 round win in their return, so he beat everybody he'd squared off with in the six years between Broulliard and Schmeling. [Sys, a real tough Flemish bastard, raised hell for over 20 years in Europe and Argentina. He drew with Moore in Buenos Aires during June 1951, making him the last opponent Archie failed to defeat before taking the title from Maxim.] Heuser lost his consistency after Schmeling.

He wasn't afraid of Joe, who never proved he had a solution for Max's counter right aside from quick ambush. But in top condition, Louis would be able to withstand or defend against those counter rights better with Blackburn's guidance. An older and more alert Schmeling would not be able to hurt Joe, or counter his way to a decision over the superior speed and initiative of Louis. However, he might actually get to the final bell this time to cede a lopsided decision in a surprisingly anticlimactic and conservatively third bout boxed with mutual caution and respect, after which Max may well retire with a sense of satisfaction and closure. If anybody could have gone the distance in a rematch after getting stopped by Joe, Schmeling would be the guy to pull it off.

Could Schmeling have had the media support necessary to get a rubber match with Louis in a WW II free, Hitler free, Nazi free world? Well, Nat Fleischer had been a manager of record for Max. Paul Gallico was actually not just a friend of Schmeling's but also a confidante. Well liked in the States, and extremely popular in New York before Hitler's rise to power, he was something of a predecessor to Arguello in his public comportment. Unlike Dempsey, Uzcudun, Max Baer, Carnera, Sharkey and Galento, he wasn't thought of as a dirty fighter, and he seemed to be a reasonably popular reigning champion in the States after the Stribling defense.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:38 PM   #3
edward morbius
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Default Re: Joe louis vs max schmeling III

"very serious war wounds"

I have Max Schmeling's autobiography. He wrote he reinjured his back when he landed poorly during his parachute jump. He had to use a makeshift cane to get around for a couple of days.

But to his credit, Max was very honest about his major wartime problem

"Even before the invasion I had started to show signs of dysentery, but I hadn't said anything. Now the symptoms were back in full force."

"I spent the night in the open with severe stomach cramps."

"At some point in the morning, orderlies came and took me away on a stretcher. Soon after I was taken to a hospital in Athens."

Dempsey also to his credit resisted efforts to exaggerate his war record. Both men, though, were at the front even if old for soldiers.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Joe louis vs max schmeling III

Negotiations were started for a third Louis Schmeling fight, anf Louis's handlers seem to have been willing to go along with it, but the war put a stop to it.
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Joe louis vs max schmeling III

Schmelling woz olredy declaining end e 4mer taitlist iven b4 der 1st fait , wich hi woz never sapozd 2 win . bay deir 2nd hi woz oredy dipli declaind . E 3rd fait wud hev ment nasing
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Joe louis vs max schmeling III

Quote:
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"very serious war wounds"

I have Max Schmeling's autobiography. He wrote he reinjured his back when he landed poorly during his parachute jump. He had to use a makeshift cane to get around for a couple of days.

But to his credit, Max was very honest about his major wartime problem

"Even before the invasion I had started to show signs of dysentery, but I hadn't said anything. Now the symptoms were back in full force."

"I spent the night in the open with severe stomach cramps."

"At some point in the morning, orderlies came and took me away on a stretcher. Soon after I was taken to a hospital in Athens."

Dempsey also to his credit resisted efforts to exaggerate his war record. Both men, though, were at the front even if old for soldiers.
I've a 92 year old grand uncle who was wounded in Sicily, then again in France after D-Day. He's suffered the effects ever since, but minimizes them, perhaps thinking of those who never came back, were dismembered, or otherwise more seriously screwed up than he. Another uncle was nearly killed when shot by a sniper prior to the Battle of the Bulge [the impact spun him around, then he shot and killed that sniper, but when he lied down, he thought he was going to die]. This was an era where survivors tended to minimize the damage their bodies sustained in combat, and they grew up with fathers and uncles who experienced what many of those WW II servicemen considered an even more hellish war to endure.
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