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Old 02-03-2008, 03:23 PM   #16
godking
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Default Re: Mindset of the elite fighters of the past versus today...

Proffesional fighters then and now fought primarily for money . That is why they where proffesional fighters.

What has changed is the acces to information and more options for fighters on how to spend their money.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:30 PM   #17
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Default Re: Mindset of the elite fighters of the past versus today...

There have always been fighters who were in it for the money and headcases who were in it for the glory. That is human nature.

The extent to which the old timers were mentaly tougher is the extent to which they had more to loose if they slid back down the greasy pole.

While the old timers tended to be tougher there will always be exceptions. For example Evander Holyfield is mentaly tougher than Jack Sharkey and less talented but got further on mental toughness.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Mindset of the elite fighters of the past versus today...

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Originally Posted by janitor
While the old timers tended to be tougher there will always be exceptions. For example Evander Holyfield is mentaly tougher than Jack Sharkey and less talented but got further on mental toughness.
Holy was a throwback in mentality.

The modern mentality is exemplified by the Olympic Golden Boy Complex, wherein some investment group hustles the American public with a bunch of showboating, pitty-pat fighters whose every move is crafted and contrived. Granted, some of these fighters are very talented in an amateur context but the style of fighting they employ is often boring and extremely unconfrontational.

Contrast to guys like Jersey Joe Walcott, Dempsey, Stribling, Charlie Burley, we could name hundreds, guys who fought out of food lines and housing projects and miner camps without the pampered benefits of the modern fight game.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: Mindset of the elite fighters of the past versus today...

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I think older (pre-50's) people are much tougher than the current generation, on average. My grandparents barely complained about anything because they were used to living under shitty circumstances. Today, there's so much luxery.

However, there will always be iron men in boxing. Guys like Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, etc have every bit as much fight in them as Marciano, Louis and co.
I agree.

Life was tougher during the period in which fighters from the Golden Age were formed. Boxers reflected the greater trend and were more able and willing to deal with adversity to survive and reach the goal. Everyone was encouraged to in the family, in the churches, in the popular media. And it wasn't as much about material rewards as it is now -it was about forgotten things like "honor." Sports' columns back then are considered quaint now. "Honor" was used freely. When was the last time you heard an athlete described as a "credit" to America or a man of dignity? Dempsey and Tunney had real, deep pride, but they were also humble men who treated people with respect. Humility reflects perspective, because any man who thinks he's all that is lost in a delusion.

Teddy Roosevelt said it well: "speak softly and carry a big stick."

Today's idea of poverty would be considered luxury back then. Americans, at least, aren't "hungry" anymore, figuratively or literally. Mexico knows poverty. The Bronx does not.

Mexico also knows character. We used to. This culture has turned prissy and hedonistic. It's all about feeling good, and getting things without striving, and blaming and complaining and embracing feelings of victimhood. These things are conducive to ADD and co-payments for psychotherapy ... they sure as hell aren't conducive to breeding tough, never-say-die fighters.

My "country 'tis of thee" has drifted far from the moorings that made it great. Ultimately, that explains why Floyd cries and toothless Tyson rages.


To hell with Brittney Spears.

God Bless Kelly Pavlik.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Mindset of the elite fighters of the past versus today...

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Originally Posted by Seamus
Holy was a throwback in mentality.

The modern mentality is exemplified by the Olympic Golden Boy Complex, wherein some investment group hustles the American public with a bunch of showboating, pitty-pat fighters whose every move is crafted and contrived. Granted, some of these fighters are very talented in an amateur context but the style of fighting they employ is often boring and extremely unconfrontational.

Contrast to guys like Jersey Joe Walcott, Dempsey, Stribling, Charlie Burley, we could name hundreds, guys who fought out of food lines and housing projects and miner camps without the pampered benefits of the modern fight game.
Having said that I honestly think that ego is perhaps the most important aspect of toughness.

A legend is sombody who would rather have their arm cut off with a saw than loose.

That was the only thing ali had going for him mentaly.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:44 PM   #21
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Default Re: Mindset of the elite fighters of the past versus today...

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We have been able to see the fights with OUT going to them, since 1897. The differnts of couse is today we buy the PPV, or HBO/Showtime, back than pre TV, you can give up 25$ and go to the movie house to see the fight. Back than Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey always had fight pics in the movie houses.
Of course there have been avenues to see fights, no argument here on that, but having that access in your own home or on your computer makes it a lot easier than going to the local movie house. Today you can see every star, gatekeeper, journeyman, no-hopers, and amatuer fight. And you can view as many times as you want. It is much easier to view fights and fighters today than it ever has.
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: Mindset of the elite fighters of the past versus today...

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Originally Posted by janitor
Having said that I honestly think that ego is perhaps the most important aspect of toughness.

A legend is sombody who would rather have their arm cut off with a saw than loose.

That was the only thing ali had going for him mentaly.

You know a prime candidate for the Golden Boy Syndrome was Sugar Ray Leonard. And he was carefully guided as an egg yolk for the first part of his career, well-matched and well-funded. But against Hearns, he showed he had championship heart, old-school toughness. So, sometimes you still get the fighter with the hype.
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Mindset of the elite fighters of the past versus today...

Old timers were mentally discipined much more than today's fighters.
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:27 PM   #24
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Default Re: Mindset of the elite fighters of the past versus today...

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Originally Posted by Russell
Older fighters were mental iron men compared to most of todays fighters.

Much, much harder times.
Look at the photos of the Depression era farmers and steel mill workers, then drive by the local Sonic Drive-in and look at those guys.

Who do you think are the bad asses?
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