What if Tyson beat Douglas?

[salty trunks]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Wake up call, my ass.

Anyone who thinks that having a tough fight with Douglas and winning would have made Tyson abandon his wrong path, get on the phone to Kevin Rooney and Bil Cayton, and say "I need your help.Let's get back to where we left off." is indulging in fantasies, AND ignoring everything that happened before and since.

It might have made him think about training harder for Holyfield, but how much harder he would have actually trained ? Probably not enough.

I agree a little with your point, but Tyson did decide to go with Giachetti after the loss who was far more qualified than Jay Bright and Aaron Snowell at the time, but Tyson would have continued to take things half heartedly.

He did go back to Don King after getting out of prison, but Tyson said King offered him the best deal "on paper". 400 million dollar contract and all the champions lined up to fight him including Holyfield. Where Tyson made the biggest mistake was hiring Horne, Holloway and Bright again who he thought were his friends, but really worked for King.

[Azzer85]

If Tyson beat Douglas, his personal life would not have changed in any way at all.

What would have changed is....Tyson most likely knuckles down (as he did do after the Douglas loss)

Prepares harder for Holyfield which would have his next fight

Win/lose or draw, hed then have fought Foreman and possibly Ruddock once.

By not losing to Douglas, he would have got his most important fights before he was carted off into prison (and yes, Tyson still would have ended up in prison no matter what)

But, by facing holyfield earlier, people would have a more honest appraisal on tysons career rather than judging him on losses against holyfield after 5 years in prison and against Lennox when Tyson was 14 years removed from when he defeated Spinks.

[salty trunks]

I think if Tyson took the type of beating he took up until the 8th and Douglas didnt get up after the knockdown, it would have still prompted Tyson to get rid of Bright and go to Giachetti. Actually Don King would have most likely pushed for it, because King was going to be facing fighters he didnt have control over, like Holyfield. Holy was guaranteed a shot at Tyson next and was at ringside in Japan when Tyson got his butt kicked.

[knockout artist]

Originally Posted by orriray59

How many times do we have to hear people cite this bullshit in every Mike Tyson thread?
Fuck. It took maybe a tiny bit more than simply not fearing Iron Mike to beat him.

Did Mitch Green fear him? Jose Ribalta? Razor Ruddock? Larry Holmes? Peter McNeeley?

These guys didn't fear Mike, yet they all got their clocks cleaned. He was a skilled destroyer, not a guy who just lucked out when his opponent didn't "fear him."

Besides, how many of his challengers legitimately feared him? Yeah, sure, maybe I do, or you do, but we're talking about world champions here. The cream of the crop.
I'm sure they'd be extremely nervous but do the elite ever really fear somebody?

I don't think so.

When did Tyson ever get up off the canvas to win?

[doug.ie]

lets not forget, he would have probably have had to meet douglas in a rematch too....the boxing public would have demanded that i think.

[salty trunks]

Originally Posted by knockout artist

When did Tyson ever get up off the canvas to win?

What does that mean? When did Lennox Lewis ever get up to win? Really doesnt mean much. Took a lot to put Tyson down. How many fighters could take the type of punishment Tyson could?

[dyna]

Originally Posted by OMGWTF

A Granite Chin (Holyfield/ Ali) beats a Dynamite Punch (Tyson,/ Foreman, Shavers)

Tyson would never have beaten Holyfield!

Ali wasn't granite.
He was very good in rolling with punches and recovered very fast, but his chin was "just" good.
And early in his career it was ok.(when he was around 23)

[dyna]

Originally Posted by zadfrak

Disagree.

What Tyson would do is the same thing other hitters have done when they manage to get the rare come from behind ko when they're losing. that is to depend on that punch in all subsequent bouts to do the same thing and get the same result.

What you end up with is not a guy that buckles down due to a scare. Instead it's prepare less because even if they are behind, they will land sometime and win the bout.

As for Tyson, the only time he did it was against Botha. I sure did not see Mike Tyson doubling up his sparring and preperations for his future bouts because of that scare.

A chameleon only changes colors. It's still a lizard.

It's what a lot of punchers have indeed.
They fall in love with their power.
Ruddock was a skilled guy once...

[dyna]

Originally Posted by salty trunks

What does that mean? When did Lennox Lewis ever get up to win? Really doesnt mean much. Took a lot to put Tyson down. How many fighters could take the type of punishment Tyson could?

Tyson his chin in underrated, the punishment he took against Buster was extreme and I think it's safe to say that it also hurt Tyson his chin.(In the longterm)

Buster had a piston like jab and belongs with the guys who can knockout a fighter with just his jab (Golota, Wlad, Holmes), the uppercut Tyson got was brutal too and the finishing was just perfect.

Tyson had a nearly 20 inch thick neck and a granite beard.
I believe he had in his peak a better chin than Holyfield but his wars took tolls to that.

[Azzer85]

Originally Posted by knockout artist

When did Tyson ever get up off the canvas to win?

There is nothing impressive, about getting up off the floor to win a fight you were winning anyway

Mike Tyson, never got up off the canvas to win a fight he was losing.

Neither did Muhammad Ali, neither did Lennox Lewis, Neither did Evander Holyfield, neither did Riddick Bowe. Whenever Holmes was knocked down, it was in fights he was winning anyway apart from maybe Shavers. Foreman never got up off the canvas to win a fight he was losing either maybe except the Lyle fight. Wladmir also never got up off the canvas to win a fight he was losing. And theres a whole lot more

Suddenly, the list is smaller than you think.

[silenc]

Originally Posted by The Funny Man 7

Mike was already barbarously wealthy and rated somelike like the third most famous person in the entire world.

give me #1 and #2 at that time.

[DarthYoda]

Originally Posted by silenc

give me #1 and #2 at that time.

Princess Di and Michael Jackson

[mrbassie]

I think he'd probably have underprepared again and been smashed by Holyfield.
Tyson didn't get the wakeup call from the Douglas fight, the preemptive headmovement, defacto combination punching, footwork, jabbing never really saw the light of day again. Tyson fell in love with his power and threw his bag of tricks away, he never found them again.

[doug.ie]

Originally Posted by DarthYoda

Princess Di and Michael Jackson

what about freddie starr ?

[MagnaNasakki]

He'd have stayed with his incompetent camp, and continued to do the wrong things.

Holyfield would have outclassed him to such a degree it would have hurt his legacy. He'd have come up way, way short against the other great heavyweight of his era.

Losing to Douglas when he did was ultimately beneficial. People can make excuses as to a fluke loss to a gatekeeper, he left some of the worst fools he was with, and in the Ruddock fights, he showed up in shape, and ready to rock, and in the first one, looked fantastic.

It would have made his newfound love for his overrated power worse. Tyson was the most lethal, lightning bolt combination puncher since Joe Louis, and that accounted for his fearsome KO record. Fighting as a one punch stylist, with no body work, and he never looked as frightening again.

For the Ruddock fight, back came body work. Back came angles. Back came hellish combinations.

His fans bitch about his abandoning all his substance for a pure punching approach, and they really think him bailing out the fight of his life with a single punch makes that attitude BETTER?

Tyson isn't beating Holyfield. Period. But to have good chance, he needs to fight the right way, and thats how he fought cornered by Rooney, or how he managed to fight for Ruddock I and to a lesser extent, Ruddock II. He fights Holyfield the way he fought Douglas, or anybody after prison, and he's taking a schooling and a hellish beating.