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Old 11-21-2012, 08:05 PM   #61
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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He did win, in more ways than one You Duran haters are just pig sick that he had the balls to go jump into the ring with a prime Hagler one year after being declared all washed up

Where was your love-pillow SRL, OH YEH! Thats right! He called a press conference to publicly bail out of the Hagler fight in 82 & Tommy broke his pinky finger! DURAN stepped up whilst other coniving feinthearts fled from the opportunity to face a PRIME Hagler
I must concur.

By the way, I had Duran ahead going into the 14th round, with Hagler just shading it. Unbelievable

Leonard wouldnt come out to face hagler that year any more than he would face Micheal Nunn after his one punch of Kalambay

It's like they say, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is

The man (Sugar) just wasnt that good
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:06 PM   #62
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

"Duran's a heel-to-toe guy, he takes two steps to get to you. So the idea is don't give him the two steps, don't move too far away. The more distance you give Duran, the more effective he is. What you don't do against aggression is run from it, because then he picks up momentum. My guy won't run from him."

- Angelo Dundee

"He's soft. Leonard's the puncher in this fight. I think he's going to knock him out in 10 or 11 rounds because Duran hasn't destroyed anybody as a Welterweight... Ray's going to nail him. Ray's going to stop him in his tracks with the jab. Leonard's got so much talent they haven't seen it yet."

- Angelo Dundee



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Old 11-21-2012, 08:08 PM   #63
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

[quote=duranimal;14248966]
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Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post

Duran beat Leonard when it mattered & outboxed & beat the cunt up in fine style
If Duran beat Leonard when it mattered he would have beaten him all the times he fought him or at least 2 out of 3. Leonard came ahead of Duran in the matchups. If Duran had knocked out Leonard then I could see you saying he beat him in fine style, but he won a decision with Ray fighting him his style. A good win, but not against the great Ray Leonard. He helped Ray become great.

Ray even said, I fought that man at his own style and almost won! As it was Ray technically stopped Duran in the rematch. The only reason Duran quit was because Ray was starting to land to the head and body in that fight.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:10 PM   #64
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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Duran made Hagler look mortal
Hagler won. That is the result of the fight on Nov. 10, 1983. Many guys made him look mortal. Vito made him look mortal, Roldan did also and pulled him down, but it looked like a knockdown. As a matter of fact Hagler did better with taller guys than shorter guys. He did well against Fully Obel. Regardless Duran lost just like Roldan did.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:12 PM   #65
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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"Duran's a heel-to-toe guy, he takes two steps to get to you. So the idea is don't give him the two steps, don't move too far away. The more distance you give Duran, the more effective he is. What you don't do against aggression is run from it, because then he picks up momentum. My guy won't run from him."

- Angelo Dundee

"He's soft. Leonard's the puncher in this fight. I think he's going to knock him out in 10 or 11 rounds because Duran hasn't destroyed anybody as a Welterweight... Ray's going to nail him. Ray's going to stop him in his tracks with the jab. Leonard's got so much talent they haven't seen it yet."

- Angelo Dundee



exactly wrong style for Ray. To plan to fight Duran's fight was not smart. Then he learned and adjusted and beat him easily. My question to Duran fans is this. Did Ray not beat Duran easily in the rematch and rubber match? in the rematch Ray kept Duran at a distance at his punching distance then held when he got close. He refused to let Duran dictate and he easily won.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:39 PM   #66
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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exactly wrong style for Ray. To plan to fight Duran's fight was not smart. Then he learned and adjusted and beat him easily. My question to Duran fans is this. Did Ray not beat Duran easily in the rematch and rubber match? in the rematch Ray kept Duran at a distance at his punching distance then held when he got close. He refused to let Duran dictate and he easily won.
I'll tell u who had the wrong style for Ray:guys like Norris, Camacho, Nunn

Ray did NOT LIKE SPEED! and these guys had plenty to spare
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:41 PM   #67
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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I must concur.

By the way, I had Duran ahead going into the 14th round, with Hagler just shading it. Unbelievable

Leonard wouldnt come out to face hagler that year any more than he would face Micheal Nunn after his one punch of Kalambay

It's like they say, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is

The man (Sugar) just wasnt that good
Yooz sorely missed red You taken a sabbatical like me!

Same as plenty of us also that had Duran level or just ahead going into the final streatch until his tanked emptied & Marvin poured it on.

I recall back in 83 Leonard being interviewed aabout the Hagler/Duran fight by that the usual gang of leering drooling old homo's that passed for interviewers "When are you coming back Ray" Leonard fluttered his eyelashes & pouted his lips then winked & said "IF Duran wins i'am Definetly coming BACK!!! With that all yer heard was cooing & gurgling from the slimes "So you're definetly be supporting Duran" Oh Yes most definetly! Q more winking & fluttering of eyelashes from Leonard.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:48 PM   #68
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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exactly wrong style for Ray. To plan to fight Duran's fight was not smart. Then he learned and adjusted and beat him easily. My question to Duran fans is this. Did Ray not beat Duran easily in the rematch and rubber match? in the rematch Ray kept Duran at a distance at his punching distance then held when he got close. He refused to let Duran dictate and he easily won.
The style Leonard employed in New Orleans wouldn't of otherwise been a problem had Duran not been severely drained - his own fault, fine - in fact, it would've been disastrous just as Dundee alludes to above. Guy wouldn't let his hands go for jack shit. No interest in engaging in the slightest with a more skilled practitioner. And he didn't "almost win" in Montreal -- it wasn't particularly close.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:00 PM   #69
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

I'd say they both beat eachother when it mattered.

Duran won the first matchup, and the best fight, but Ray embarassed him, avenged his loss, and stood by to reap the rewards.

Winning the trilogy is always better than winning the one fight. Duran is the greater fighter because of his lightweight reign, but Ray has the better resume higher up then that, and it isn't close. It wouldn't look half as impressive if he hadn't manage to TKO Duran.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:01 PM   #70
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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The style Leonard employed in New Orleans wouldn't of otherwise been a problem had Duran not been severely drained - his own fault, fine - in fact, it would've been disastrous just as Dundee alludes to above. Guy wouldn't let his hands go for jack shit. No interest in engaging in the slightest with a more skilled practitioner. And he didn't "almost win" in Montreal -- it wasn't particularly close.
Leonard fought in New Orleans like a man who was severely worried & scared shitless! He did'nt fancy another hammering like he took in Montreal. I recall the press back then castigating Leonard for his performence in lacking the required intestinal fortitude expected & required from a champion, not the tentative approach he employed which was deemed unaccepable in the eyes of many of the scribes of the day.

This is why the doubts about Leoanrd hung over him all the way up till the 13 the round of the Hearns fight when he finnaly silenced the critics. But up til then he was viewed as just a media creation & New Orleans magnified that view, with regards to Duran just walking out of the ring, it did'nt really get that much ink by way of slagging him down, everyone to a man knew he was a volitile nutter capable of anything.

AS one scribe wrote using the biblical quote of " He who is without sin cast the 1st Stone" He got a bollocking from the media but it was all about his temprement, whilst Leonard got more question marks against him that before Montreal. Leonard was expected to win & win BIG, but that was 8 rounds of dirge & as i said, thats why Hearns was viewed as the real deal & SRL the fake
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:22 PM   #71
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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Yooz sorely missed red You taken a sabbatical like me!

Same as plenty of us also that had Duran level or just ahead going into the final streatch until his tanked emptied & Marvin poured it on.

I recall back in 83 Leonard being interviewed aabout the Hagler/Duran fight by that the usual gang of leering drooling old homo's that passed for interviewers "When are you coming back Ray" Leonard fluttered his eyelashes & pouted his lips then winked & said "IF Duran wins i'am Definetly coming BACK!!! With that all yer heard was cooing & gurgling from the slimes "So you're definetly be supporting Duran" Oh Yes most definetly! Q more winking & fluttering of eyelashes from Leonard.
thanks, I appreciate it Duranimal.

u kno I am just being honest. I am the biggest hagler fan out there. I know him thru & thru as a fighter, there was no end to his wizardry. Like they say, the man had no limitations

but, seemed ineffective with Duran. What I found very surprising is that Duran actually did land the heavier shots and made Marv miss & struggle. Marv was bragging we were going to see the best Hagler ever. Instead we got the worst (second worst if u count Leonard)

I also kno about Leonards comments. i seen them. his retirement was never for real. I dont kno why people keep insisting it was. It's like they cant accept reality

and like I said before, if it seems too good to be true, it is

Ray was just looking for someone easy, someone lifeless, someone with a reputation but who couldnt physically hurt him when he made his come back

I kno Angelo puts on a front with what Ray will do differently to Marvin when in reality their plan was to lay back until the time was right. and yeah, Ray let the cat out of the bag after watching Mugabi take him to task "I can beat him!"

well if he could beat him, why didnt he say while he was doing commentary on HBO?

but u kno his fans. they'll go on pretending, ignoring reaility to build him up

IMO, Sugar just wasnt that good. A few more wins like Pryor, Curry, Nunn wouldve helped his stature but I dont think he could handle them. Neither does he
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:51 PM   #72
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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exactly wrong style for Ray. To plan to fight Duran's fight was not smart. Then he learned and adjusted and beat him easily. My question to Duran fans is this. Did Ray not beat Duran easily in the rematch and rubber match? in the rematch Ray kept Duran at a distance at his punching distance then held when he got close. He refused to let Duran dictate and he easily won.
Are you really saying these words again. Ray stayed outside and won the rubbermatch and that somehow proves he beats prime Duran. You are actually comparing Montreal Duran or even NO Duran and to the 89 Duran? Which Duran Ray has to fight means nothing? You do this with only Duran or every fighter? Any version of Ray loses to Norris every time? Frazier still with footspeed wont make it tougher for Ali like in 71 or does that not mean anything becasue Ali won the next two? Lewis easily beat Tyson. Which Tyson means **** all as long as Lewis boxes him i guess.

I think any best 70's version of Ali gets beaten by the best 70's version of Frazier. Im not 100% sure Montreal Duran beats NO Ray but you are 100% sure Ray wins despite Duran was not the same fighter. Its werid.

And one thing about the Montreal fight. It was not like they were trading bombs from the get go. Ray was hurt in the 2nd round and you are not gonna just easily outbox an intense Duran versiion with foot and handspeed , feints and the whole damn skillset away from you easily when you are hurt. And the beating Ray took to the body in the following round does not help either.

Im seriously losing it when you somehow manages to try make Duran naturally the bigger man than the legends that he fought after 80. Becasue he was the oldest guy and had some bad habits at that point and took a fight at 154 means just that.Yeah he looked great still at 147 but come on. Duran could probably come in at 175 and fight Spinks as well at some point in the 80's. Does not mean a small guy is a his best there now does it. Its retarded. He fought there before Heanrs so that makes him naturally than Benitez and Hearns sure.


Back to the topic. I think Hagler had the advatage with Ray beeing inactive that long despite Hagler beeing fairly inactive himself and this being his last fight. 5 yearsoff and beating a pound for pound beast at the time. Really is absurd.

The fight is really close imo. Some special guys like Ali or Ray are gonna get the decision when its close. Im saying that as a huge Ali fan. But its close and I don't have a problem with Ray getting it. Haglers own fault for not making it tougher for Ray early.

That being said as some have stated in this thread its an amazing win after that layoff. Even if its against a sliding Hagler its still an huge win. Just an unbeliveable will to win to go with all that speed.

Just a damn shame they did not fight when they were prime. This thread makes me wonder what the thoughts were back when they were close to fight before the layoff ( Only Ray knows if was really close obviously) On Rays chances. Big underdog in 87 but how much of an underdog before the layoff? Anyone older than me knows that?

Personally I think prime Ray would beat prime Hagler. Most of the time at least.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:08 AM   #73
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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let's stop the exaggeration. If Sugar wanted Hagler, he wouldve done it when it counted. This was a matchup years too late.

82-83, no later than 84


but 1987 was way too late as Hagler was departing the scene, and Sugar wanted to make sure he caught the leftovers
The question was about who had the advantage.
Are you honestly trying to say Hagler didn't have it here?
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:32 AM   #74
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Default Re: Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

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Going 15 with Marvin was Marvin's doing not Durans. Marvin won and won easily. He just pored it on the end of the fight and won a decision.
The reality is Duran lost to Hagler when Duran was 32. And he lost easily to Benitez a fight which Duran fans rarely mention. Benitez started out at 140 and was a naturally smaller man than Duran and he outboxed Duran easily when Duran was only 30. And then Hearns knocked out Duran in 2 in a onesided fight when Duran was 32. And Leonard outboxed Duran in the 2nd and 3rd fights. Duran lost to all the legends he is linked to.
I agree Marvin was insecure, and Tommy Hearns should not have gotten him mad and unleashed the brawling Marvin, but it made for a classic fight which will be remembered and has become Hagler's legacy.
Mag, please stop lying. Wilfred Benitez was not a naturally smaller man than Duran. Because Duran fought at 154 earlier than Benitez did, doesn't prove Duran was naturally bigger. All it proves it that he was older and fatter when they fought. Benitez' tale of the tape proves he was bigger than Duran. Stop the lying please.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:37 AM   #75
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Hagler was a hypocrit for saying Tommy should have cut off his baby pinky for 2 million dollars. Marvin could have moved up and fought Michael Spinks, who challenged him and Marvin never wanted it, yet he wanted everyone to move up and fight him. Who wouldn't?

As for Tommy and his pinky, Hearns won the 154 pound title from Benitez in Dec. that fight was scheduled for May of 1982. Hearns was rushing to middleweight from welt. Duran didn't do that, so why would Hearns, and like I said many times before Duran fought at 154 as early as 1978.. before Hearns,Benitez or Leonard ever did. Tommy getting a belt at 154 was more natural. He wanted a belt fast and was willing to fight Marvin early, then he figured he would fight Benitez at a lower weight.
As great as Michael Spinks was(he would have destroyed, DESTROYED your man Virgil Hill, as well as Tommy, too) and as good as the division was at that point, the lightheavyweights were not a glamorous, moneymaking division that the welters and middles were. I don't believe Michael ever had a million dollar payday as a lightheavy-perhaps the Qawi fight?
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