Kessler and Froch fans are pathetic!!

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by BatTheMan

Not saying it was paramount, but are you aware that the crowd was very patriotic in favour of Durán? They where that because Durán quite smart wore some québec frenchie stuff. I dont recall if it was a flag or trousers or whatever.

I knew fans had taken to him. I'm sure I read it in his biography. I wasn't aware he'd worn anything.

Thanks for the info. I understand where Arran is coming from, but he used a poor example to emphasise his point.


Regards, Loudon.

[Rudyard]

Originally Posted by TI99/4A

I may be "thick" as you put it, but at least I can spell.

Anyone who doesn't have Ward's load in their eyes could see it was a vanity tournament for his benefit by Showtime. They needed to generate some interest from American markets in a division recently dominated by foreign boxers, and they had a new face to promote in Ward.

The showtime guys would have more to lose if the actually rigged the tournament...Your statements are baseless and you dont have a leg to stand on...You're serioulsy dumb if you think these guys would risk their jobs to make sure Ward will win the tournament.

[BatTheMan]

Originally Posted by Loudon

Correct.



That's fair enough, but it doesn't alter what I originally said.

Hmmm.... You said America was the home of boxing which you later defined as where the money was. I demnostrated that Kessler fighting for a silvertitle in Denmark made more than Ward fighting the lineal LHW champion and yet it doesn't alter what you said?

I'm sure Eddie Hearn would have said the same had he had the opportunity

He never had the opportunity. He wasn't even there. You might think Mick Hennesey and he didn't say much.

As soon as the fight was signed, the first thing I though was, can he make the weight comfortably? He and his team thought that he could do it with no problems. I believed them because the reports I read, stated that Chad hadn't even asked for a catchweight. Unless the articles I read were incorrect? Like I say from what I read, many saw it as a close fight.

Right after the Hopkins win while still intoxicated with the joy of his big win, Dawson made a mistake. He said he could fight Ward at 168.

Ward's promotor Goosen could hardly believe it. What a gift. Despite several attempts to change the weight to a catchweight and the location away from jOakland, Dawsons promotor Shaw caved in. After all his own fighter had said he could do it and we all know how good Goosen is negotiating. Shaw had no leverage and no chance.

Given that what would you expect Dawson's team to say? Would they say that they had serious trouble making weight and that Dawson spends more time in the sauna than in the gym? Of course not! Still you, and others, bought it.

The rest of us knew Dawson shedding 7 lbs of sheer muscle would be weak as hell.

Hopefully we'll see it.


Regards, Loudon.

Yeah. Dawson has some serious rebuilding to do first though. That was a serious asswhoopin' surrounded by KTFO's.

[yeyo monster]

Euro fans can talk all they want about their boys selling full stadiums in their home towns......that means nothing in the boxing world......you become a star fighting and beating the best in america.....thats how it been in the history of boxing. America is the mecca of boxing in termns of merchantability

[Loudon]

[quote=BatTheMan;14247312]

Hmmm.... You said America was the home of boxing which you later defined as where the money was. I demnostrated that Kessler fighting for a silvertitle in Denmark made more than Ward fighting the lineal LHW champion and yet it doesn't alter what you said?

I'm sure that you could find other examples too. I'm talking about overall.

Look at the top 10-20 fighters in the World across all of the divisions.

Go and have a look who their promoters are.

Go and have a look where they are based.

Go and have a look where they fight.

Go and look what network they fight on.

Of course they'll be a few exceptions, but the majority of the fighters will be based in America, fighting for Arum and Oscar, on HBO and Showtime etc.

Kessler can make big money back home. But he's not a big name outside of Europe. If Andre keeps progressing, I'm sure he'll be making as much as, or more than Kessler in the near future. He's only 28.

He never had the opportunity. He wasn't even there. You might think Mick Hennesey and he didn't say much.

I know that. You've misunderstood me. I meant if Matchroom had've hosted the tournament, and the final was in England, they would have gone out of their way to try and get Carl hometown advantage. I'm sure Carl would have snatched it with both hands too.

Right after the Hopkins win while still intoxicated with the joy of his big win, Dawson made a mistake. He said he could fight Ward at 168.

John Scully and everyone else must have thought so too, otherwise they wouldn't have signed.

Ward's promotor Goosen could hardly believe it. What a gift. Despite several attempts to change the weight to a catchweight and the location away from jOakland, Dawsons promotor Shaw caved in. After all his own fighter had said he could do it and we all know how good Goosen is negotiating. Shaw had no leverage and no chance.

I'm sure if Shaw had've known the trouble that Chad would have had to endure, he wouldn't have gone for it. Shaw's not an idiot.

Given that what would you expect Dawson's team to say? Would they say that they had serious trouble making weight and that Dawson spends more time in the sauna than in the gym? Of course not! Still you, and others, bought it.

They wouldn't have known that when the fight was first signed.

The rest of us knew Dawson shedding 7 lbs of sheer muscle would be weak as hell.

Nobody could know for certain. Losing weight affects some fighters more than others.

Yeah. Dawson has some serious rebuilding to do first though. That was a serious asswhoopin' surrounded by KTFO's.

I'm confident Andre will move up soon, and I think they will rematch. Might be in 2 years though.


Regards, Loudon.

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by VictorConte

Ward is the best and he fought the best.after Pavlik he will fight RJJ at 168 and he will prove he is better that Roy ever was.he even want to fight Calzaghe but Joe is afraid

Can i have your vcash? I dont think you'll be needing it.

[BatTheMan]

Originally Posted by Loudon

I'm sure that you could find other examples too. I'm talking about overall.

Look at the top 10-20 fighters in the World across all of the divisions.

Go and have a look who their promoters are.

Go and have a look where they are based.

Go and have a look where they fight.

Go and look what network they fight on.

Of course they'll be a few exceptions, but the majority of the fighters will be based in America, fighting for Arum and Oscar, on HBO and Showtime etc.

And what has gigapurses belonging to Floyd, Oscar etc. To do with Wards situation?

Kessler can make big money back home. But he's not a big name outside of Europe. If Andre keeps progressing, I'm sure he'll be making as much as, or more than Kessler in the near future. He's only 28.

Yes. Probably.

I know that. You've misunderstood me. I meant if Matchroom had've hosted the tournament, and the final was in England, they would have gone out of their way to try and get Carl hometown advantage. I'm sure Carl would have snatched it with both hands too.

Stating the obvious.

John Scully and everyone else must have thought so too, otherwise they wouldn't have signed.

And not because they themselves stood to earn a fortune? Are you serious?

If Scully and the rest of Dawsons team cared about the fighter and not the money, they'd have pulled out of the fight when Dawson was flattened by Miranda. Think about it. If you get KO'ed in a fight you get a ban from contact sparring let alone fight for at least 3 months to ensure your brain heals. In sparring its up to the teams discretion. They risked a fatality by sending Dawson in!

Money talks.

I'm sure if Shaw had've known the trouble that Chad would have had to endure, he wouldn't have gone for it. Shaw's not an idiot.

Maybe not, but he is a terrible promotor and he likes money a lot.

They wouldn't have known that when the fight was first signed.

Correct, but you believed them during Camp. They said weightloss moved according to plan, and you bought it. No big deal. You where not the only one.

Nobody could know for certain. Losing weight affects some fighters more than others.

I cannot come up with a single example where weightloss of this magnitude didnt have disastrous consequences so feel free to educate me.

I'm confident Andre will move up soon, and I think they will rematch. Might be in 2 years though.


Regards, Loudon.

Who knows? LHW sucks and he has a win over the best. He might move up to avoid a Kessler fight in Denmark though.

[Loudon]

[quote=BatTheMan;14247992]

And what has gigapurses belonging to Floyd, Oscar etc. To do with Wards situation?

The point is, America is the home of boxing, and Andre doesn't have to travel. It would be nice if he did, but he doesn't have to. At the moment Andre isn't making huge money, but he will do soon.

And not because they themselves stood to earn a fortune? Are you serious?

Are they that desperate for money, that they'd put Chad in a situation like that? Have you read Iceman John Scully's comments. He's a member on here, and hemadesome very interesting comments. I don't know John personally, but I've read a lot of his posts, and seen countless interviews and articles on him over the years. I don't think it's a straightforward as what you think.

If Scully and the rest of Dawsons team cared about the fighter and not the money, they'd have pulled out of the fight when Dawson was flattened by Miranda. Think about it. If you get KO'ed in a fight you get a ban from contact sparring let alone fight for at least 3 months to ensure your brain heals. In sparring its up to the teams discretion. They risked a fatality by sending Dawson in!

Was it a knockdown? Or was he out cold?

Correct, but you believed them during Camp. They said weight loss moved according to plan, and you bought it. No big deal. You where not the only one.

I bought it on Dawson's confidence, and I don't think Shaw would sell him out, and put him in a dangerous position to make a quick buck. It wouldn't make sense for him to do that.

I cannot come up with a single example where weight loss of this magnitude didnt have disastrous consequences so feel free to educate me.

I'm no expert, but when I made a case for Roy, I got all sorts of names thrown at me.

Who knows? LHW sucks and he has a win over the best. He might move up to avoid a Kessler fight in Denmark though.

If he does move up, it will be for a new challenge.


Regards, Loudon

[dendy]

Originally Posted by Loudon

I know that. You've misunderstood me. I meant if Matchroom had've hosted the tournament, and the final was in England, they would have gone out of their way to try and get Carl hometown advantage. I'm sure Carl would have snatched it with both hands too.

For starters, matchroom wasn't involved with froch when the tournie was realised. It was fat Mick Hennessey who basically couldn't promote for shit.
I disagree that they would have gone all out to get hometown advantage, at the end of the day, it is supposed to be a fair competition, the idea was a world boxing classic that all fighters travelled to compete. Making a Name for themselves around the world.

No way would froch have took the home advantage, the dude is cut from different cloth and had already travelled as a champion to fight taylor for no money whatsoever. As a champion he would have been rightly slagged off for doing so too. I doubt Kessler would have took home advantage either.

Alls i hear is ward fans winging about froch and kessler fans for having the audacity to call ward out for his at home pampering. Now if ward had of done what all the others did and then went on to take butes title there would be none of this. Positive champions deserve all that they get and unfortunately for ward he has created an air of negativity around himself and just isn't that exciting.

[dendy]

Originally Posted by Loudon

The point is, America is the home of boxing, and Andre doesn't have to travel. It would be nice if he did, but he doesn't have to. At the moment Andre isn't making huge money, but he will do soon.

Regards, Loudon

you keep saying this but elude to the fact that america isn't the home of boxing where the super middleweight division is concerned and never has been. Even now, aside from ward there is nothing of note. Just in the same way that America has nothing much to do with the heavy weights..

How is ward going to start earning big money soon when there aren't any fights for him at the home of boxing? If America is the home of boxing in relation to 168 then why is ward after all he has achieved lacking in options, exposure and big money fights?

[shaunster101]

Originally Posted by yeyo monster

Euro fans can talk all they want about their boys selling full stadiums in their home towns......that means nothing in the boxing world......you become a star fighting and beating the best in america.....thats how it been in the history of boxing. America is the mecca of boxing in termns of merchantability

Whatevs.

So the Mecca of boxing is a place where a fight takes place in front of 8500 people instead of 40,000 and generates less money?

[MAJR]

Originally Posted by Bulletproof

So why in your warped mind do you want to see a re-match of a fight that wasn't overly competitive in the first place? Because Carl said he had an off night? Gee, as a fan I've never heard that from a fighter before. Why a Kessler re-match? Oh, the headbutts right? That must be it. It wasn't Ward's talent or how slow Kessler is that enabled Andre to repeatedly punch Kessler in the face now was it?

Why does Ward need a great psychological victory over two guys he already beat handily? I guess you want to see a Hatton-Pacquiao re-match or Cotto- Mayweather 2 in the UK and PR respectively huh?

You are just another butthurt fanboy who demands Ward travel simply of the notion that in a re-match Kessler and Froch may be able to regain some dignity from the one sided beatings they incurred, simply because they are fighting at home. Well keep dreaming pal, and I wonder if the sky is blue in the dream world that you live in.....

Seriously man, you know nothing of my opinion of Ward if your acusing me of being "another butthurt fanboy".

I freely admit that Ward's the best fighter in his division and beat Kessler and Froch fair and that neither man is worthy of a rematch with him right now - I've said both have to earn it by beating credible opposition within the division over the next year or so and inevitably fighting each other for the right to the rematch - and I even expect Ward to beat either of them if they ever did rematch him.

Maybe you should actually look into my post history next time.

My point was the same as shaunster101 - though he was more elegant in putting it forward - that the only point Ward's remaining critics continue to use against him is the stay-at-home thing so I see no reason in the future why Ward shouldn't go and beat whoever rises to top out of Kessler and Froch in their backyard to shut up the last of his critics, he's good enough to do it so I dont get why people are saying he shouldn't.

That and I feel it hypocritical to say that any potential challenger to Ward has got to take the title from the champion's turf when Ward never did himself - this does not mean I think his victories over Kessler or Froch any less legitimate or deserved.

[Loudon]

[quote=dendy;14248524]

For starters, matchroom wasn't involved with froch when the tournie was realised. It was fat Mick Hennessey who basically couldn't promote for shit.
I disagree that they would have gone all out to get hometown advantage, at the end of the day, it is supposed to be a fair competition, the idea was a world boxing classic that all fighters travelled to compete. Making a Name for themselves around the world.

It was just an example. I respect your opinion, but I'm sure if all of the promoters had've been in Goosen's position, they'd have done the same.

No way would froch have took the home advantage, the dude is cut from different cloth and had already travelled as a champion to fight taylor for no money whatsoever. As a champion he would have been rightly slagged off for doing so too. I doubt Kessler would have took home advantage either.

Again I respect your opinion, but I think Carl would have done. It's ok saying he's cut from a different cloth and he's travelled etc, he's had no choice in the matter. He's had to travel.

Alls i hear is ward fans winging about froch and kessler fans for having the audacity to call ward out for his at home pampering. Now if ward had of done what all the others did and then went on to take butes title there would be none of this. Positive champions deserve all that they get and unfortunately for ward he has created an air of negativity around himself and just isn't that exciting.

If Ward had have been in their position, he would had to have done the same, but he wasn't. He's been very fortunate.

He should have fought Bute, but he'd won the Super Six pretty easily, so how can anyone be harsh on him? We're now at the stage where the guy who's won the whole tournament easily, is not getting as much credit as the losers.

Regards, Loudon.

[Loudon]

[quote=dendy;14248594]

you keep saying this but elude to the fact that america isn't the home of boxing where the super middleweight division is concerned and never has been. Even now, aside from ward there is nothing of note. Just in the same way that America has nothing much to do with the heavy weights..

Correct, and probably Cruiser too. My point was the top 10-20 elite fighters in the world across all of the divisions are based in America. The biggest fights in the world happen in America. Yes of course other big fights happen outside America also. But the majority of the best fighters in the World are in America. This will never change. Because guys that aren't based in the U.S. sooner or later have to go there to make it big on the world stage.

How is ward going to start earning big money soon when there aren't any fights for him at the home of boxing? If America is the home of boxing in relation to 168 then why is ward after all he has achieved lacking in options, exposure and big money fights?

I didn't say in relation to 168. I said the majority of the elite fighters in the World fight for Oscar and Arum in the U.S. Ward hasn't got that many options. I think he'll stick around for a while at 168, and see what happens Kessler, Froch and Bute, and then make a decision. I would think he'll move to 175 soon.

Regards, Loudon.

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by shaunster101

Whatevs.

So the Mecca of boxing is a place where a fight takes place in front of 8500 people instead of 40,000 and generates less money?

I think he's talking generally, and not specifically about Ward.

The real money comes from PPV not the gate.

Some of the biggest fights in the world have been fought in Vegas in front of only 16,000 people.

If Manny and Floyd ever fight, it'll probably be in a Vegas casino like with Floyd and Oscar.


Regards, Loudon