Jim Robinson and Sonny Liston - '1st-Round Knock-out Victims'

[Senor Pepe']

Dr. Alexander Zuntov

Classical logic, states that Mr. Liston, who had never been floored before,
other than a flash-knockdown suffered back in 1955, had incredible
strength in absorbing any blow.

The age of the man would not have made any difference in Round 1.

The boxer, Mr. Liston had never shown signs of being hurt, both in the ring
in a sanctioned bout, and in sparring sessions, over a 15 year span, to suddenly fall
from a single-blow, defies logic.

If, Mr. Liston had fought for an extended period of time in that bout, and was physically
exhausted is one thing, but to fall 'near unconscious' for 12 to 14 seconds, from a
single-blow, impossible, unless he was 'medicated' or under the influence of alcohol,
which cannot be dismissed.

Let me explain,

[ron u.k.]

Listen Pepe,as far as i'm concerned Sonny lay down,for whatever reason i wouldn't know.
However my point is Ali knew nothing of it,his immediate reaction to Liston going down tells everyone that.

[SJS19]

Why does a man spend his life seeking to discredit another?

[Senor Pepe']

Originally Posted by ron u.k.

Listen Pepe,as far as i'm concerned Sonny lay down,for whatever reason i wouldn't know.
However my point is Ali knew nothing of it,his immediate reaction to Liston going down tells everyone that.

Ron U.K.

That, I agree.

Not Cassius' fault. It was 'just business'.

Quantom Mechanics = No way could Cassius floor Sonny with that punch under normal conditions, never.

[Lord Tywin]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

'Sweet Jimmy' called himself a 'Middleweight'

Previous fight weights for 'Sweet Jimmy'

6/13/60....169 lbs.
10/13/60...164 lbs.
11/8/60.....163 lbs.

2/7/61.......177 lbs. vs. Cassius Clay

4/14/61.....162 lbs.
6/2/61.......163 lbs.
7/17/61.....164 lbs.

Oh Yeah, he sounds like a 'normal' Light-Heavyweight.

Fight Promoter - Chris Dundee would never make up anything to get a fight card done.

A 100% 'set-up' phony fight.

Did Robinson come out of the audience on short notice for those fights? No, ok so its safe to assume he either wasnt in the best shape or didnt have to make weight.

How is it a setup if the guy who was supposed to face Ali, a 6'6" 220 pound heavyweight with 14 fights fails to show and they have to get a last minute sub to keep the card alive? It happens all the time.

And there isnt a single fight you listed for Robinson that was below 160, you can call him what you want but the guy never made the middleweight limit.

[Senor Pepe']

You mean,,,,

The Famous Willie 'Shorty'' Gulatt.

Part-time boxer - full-time drunk, in Miami Beach.

26 year-old - 'Shorty' Gulatt, 6' 6" 220 lb. 'Bar Room Brawler'

Complete with an 8-4-1 (5 KO's) record, and only 1-bout fought in
2+ years.

'Shorty' lost every second of every round (L Dec 6) against Tony 'Kid' Alongi
in August 1960.

[SolomonDeedes]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Ron U.K.

That, I agree.

Not Cassius' fault. It was 'just business'.

Quantom Mechanics = No way could Cassius floor Sonny with that punch under normal conditions, never.

I must confess, I'm fascinated to hear more about the application of quantum mechanics to knockouts in boxing. I expect this was a theory formulated by Professor Zuntov when he wasn't battling the Rock Men on Mongo.

[ron u.k.]

It's amazing how Pepe concentrates on guys Ali fought on the way up,rather than Foreman,Frazier,Lyle,Shavers,Norton etc.

[doug.ie]

Originally Posted by ron u.k.

It's amazing how Pepe concentrates on guys Ali fought on the way up,rather than Foreman,Frazier,Lyle,Shavers,Norton etc.

ron..me old pal..and fellow lover of good music too....why so serious ??

[Senor Pepe']

Dr. Alexander Zuntov,

Part I

Classical Logic and Complementary Variables

In September thru November 1964, Mr. Liston performed
approximately 125 Rounds of sparring, with large hard-hitting
ring-mates,

* Amos Lincoln.........6' 2" - 205 lbs.
* James McCarter.....6' 2" - 222 lbs.
* Lee Williams..........6' 2" - 225 lbs.
* Don Smith.............6' 4" - 240 lbs.

While each of the above listed fighters did 'not' have the overall
boxing skills of Cassius Clay, each one was a harder puncher
based upon a 'single punch thrust', when using the energy-force
theory.

None of these 'sparring mates' were ever able to drop or hurt
Mr. Liston, despite landing numerous head blows, during 2-Months
and over 350-minutes of ring time with the 'man in question'.

Of course, Quantum Mechanics, of position and momentum
could not be evaluated in each sparring session, but it would
be a logical assumption that at least once Mr. Liston could
have been felled.

But he was not, a per conversations with all camp members,
sparring-mates and witnesses.

At that period in 1964, Mr. Liston may or may have not been the age
of 34, but could have eaily been the age of 37+.

Irregardless, the landing of a single-blow on this 6' 1" 220 lb. man
would have to be of tremendous force, just to fell him, based upon his
previous history.

[AREA 53]

Presumably "sweet" Jimmy Robinson later chaged his name to "Slim" Jim Robinson ???

[Lord Tywin]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

You mean,,,,

The Famous Willie 'Shorty'' Gulatt.

Part-time boxer - full-time drunk, in Miami Beach.

26 year-old - 'Shorty' Gulatt, 6' 6" 220 lb. 'Bar Room Brawler'

Complete with an 8-4-1 (5 KO's) record, and only 1-bout fought in
2+ years.

'Shorty' lost every second of every round (L Dec 6) against Tony 'Kid' Alongi
in August 1960.

And Ali had how many fights at this point? 3 when he fought Robinson and zero when Gullat was fighting Tony Alongi.

[SolomonDeedes]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Dr. Alexander Zuntov,

Part I

Classical Logic and Complementary Variables

In September thru November 1964, Mr. Liston performed
approximately 125 Rounds of sparring, with large hard-hitting
ring-mates,

* Amos Lincoln.........6' 2" - 205 lbs.
* James McCarter.....6' 2" - 222 lbs.
* Lee Williams..........6' 2" - 225 lbs.
* Don Smith.............6' 4" - 240 lbs.

While each of the above listed fighters did 'not' have the overall
boxing skills of Cassius Clay, each one was a harder puncher
based upon a 'single punch thrust', when using the energy-force
theory.

None of these 'sparring mates' were ever able to drop or hurt
Mr. Liston, despite landing numerous head blows, during 2-Months
and over 350-minutes of ring time with the 'man in question'.

Of course, Quantum Mechanics, of position and momentum
could not be evaluated in each sparring session, but it would
be a logical assumption that at least once Mr. Liston could
have been felled.

But he was not, a per conversations with all camp members,
sparring-mates and witnesses.

At that period in 1964, Mr. Liston may or may have not been the age
of 34, but could have eaily been the age of 37+.

Irregardless, the landing of a single-blow on this 6' 1" 220 lb. man
would have to be of tremendous force, just to fell him, based upon his
previous history.

Oh my God. This is just... genius. Can't wait for Part II.

[ron u.k.]

Originally Posted by doug.ie

ron..me old pal..and fellow lover of good music too....why so serious ??

Doug me old mucker I plead guilty. I've got a sense of humour to go with the best but I just can't help but defend Ali, he's a backdrop to my growing up.
It's not as though the man's just a good humoured wind up merchant he must spend 90 per cent of his life researching and inventing ways of dissing Ali.
I don't think I'm the Saddo here but yes,the guy's had me biting more than a piraña!! Guilty!!

[Senor Pepe']

Dr. Alexander Zuntov,

We could check the punching power of Cassius Clay, but that would be a
solid waste of time, because it was obvious, 'he didn't punch that hard'.

In bouts before Sonny Liston, and after Sonny Liston, Mr. Clay did not exhibit
one-punch power, especially while moving to his right and throwing a punch.

And, in his sparring sessions, he was not flooring his sparring-mates, even when
hitting them flush with right-hands, both in October-November 1964 and April-May 1965.

In the 'matter of motion, space and time', the force that Mr. Clay exhibited in
the punch to floor Mr. Liston would have not been able to floor a man of
Mr. Listons's capabilities.

If this were true, about this 'Phantom Punch', Mr. Liston would have been knocked
out immediately, meaning he would have fallen face first to the canvas without
attempting to break the fall with his hands.

The formula for this is simple, and Mr. Liston was 'not' knocked out from the punch,
because of his arm reaction, as well as his looking to the left side when he fell.

Mr. Liston while falling, extended his right arm out full-length to help break his fall,
while looking to his left.

Mr. Liston, showed all the signs of a person 'acting' to be felled from a punch, as we
have tested that theory many tilmes.