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Old 11-21-2012, 04:54 AM   #1
doug.ie
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Default andre ward v chad dawson question

i know this has probably been covered here and i've missed it.

why was this fight not for dawson's light heavy titles as well....in the same way that say sugar ray leonard v donny lalonde was
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:01 AM   #2
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

The fight was at 168. Why should Ward win Dawsons 175 titles having never fought at that weight?
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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The fight was at 168. Why should Ward win Dawsons 175 titles having never fought at that weight?
well...leonard did it.

as long as it is under 175...however much under.

i'm not giving an opinion really though as i'm kinda undecided myself if that is justified, but as it has been done before in the very same situation thats why i ask.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:22 AM   #4
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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well...leonard did it.

as long as it is under 175...however much under.

i'm not giving an opinion really though as i'm kinda undecided myself if that is justified, but as it has been done before in the very same situation thats why i ask.
I think the super-middleweight title was newly created at the time but not sure if that had much to do with the 175 titles being on the line, perhaps it was a contract thing that Leonard stipulated. It's an interesting question but I would be against it being allowed: somebody shouldn't really be able to win a title when fighting at the weight-class below.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:43 AM   #5
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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I think the super-middleweight title was newly created at the time but not sure if that had much to do with the 175 titles being on the line, perhaps it was a contract thing that Leonard stipulated. It's an interesting question but I would be against it being allowed: somebody shouldn't really be able to win a title when fighting at the weight-class below.
You're right. It was a bit of a farce really. The WBC belt at 168 was new, and it was just to hype the fight, and for SRL to win a title in another weight class. Donny Lalonde had to come in no higher than 168 to defend his own 175 title. Bit of a joke, but Donny was paid off to agree to it.

It would have been totally unfair for Chad's belts to be on the line. Chad fought at Andre's weight.

Manny's win over Marg at 150, for the vacant 154 belt, also leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He had no intention whatsoever of defending it, and just did it so he could say he'd won another belt, in another division. The fight should never have been sanctioned, and Manny as great as he his, should not be classed as an eight division champion.


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Old 11-21-2012, 06:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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Manny's win over Marg at 150, for the vacant 154 belt, also leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He had no intention whatsoever of defending it, and just did it so he could say he'd won another belt, in another division. The fight should never have been sanctioned, and Manny as great as he his, should not be classed as an eight division champion.
i used to think the same....but roaches constant and adamant statement that anything over 147 was light-middle did throw my thinking a little on it.
but i did think like you.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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i know this has probably been covered here and i've missed it.

why was this fight not for dawson's light heavy titles as well....in the same way that say sugar ray leonard v donny lalonde was
Because the WBC wanted to give Leonard the chance of being 5 division champion. Leonard hoped to be the first, but Hearns took the (less esteemed) WBO belt a couple of weeks earlier.

Dawson wanted to keep his belt at LHW. Had Lalonde said he would keep his belt as well, he'd never have gotten the fight.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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Because the WBC wanted to give Leonard the chance of being 5 division champion. Leonard hoped to be the first, but Hearns took the (less esteemed) WBO belt a couple of weeks earlier.

Dawson wanted to keep his belt at LHW. Had Lalonde said he would keep his belt as well, he'd never have gotten the fight.
That's right mate.

I wonder what they paid Lalonde to agree to it?
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

Fake legacy fluffers. All the Leonard and Pacquaio fights were.

Thing is, casual fans really do eat it up.

Manny Pacquaio, eight weight division champion. Disgusting.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:04 AM   #10
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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That's right mate.

I wonder what they paid Lalonde to agree to it?
A career high purse by a landslide.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:05 AM   #11
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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Fake legacy fluffers. All the Leonard and Pacquaio fights were.

Thing is, casual fans really do eat it up.

Manny Pacquaio, eight weight division champion. Disgusting.
I enjoyed the Lalonde fight, but this is a big reason no SRL fan would ever hype up anything post-Hagler.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:09 AM   #12
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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I enjoyed the Lalonde fight, but this is a big reason no SRL fan would ever hype up anything post-Hagler.
Correct Sir. The Hagler fight is his last real legit win for me. Maybe that's the wrong phrase, but it's the last noteable chapter in his career in my eyes.

He's given a pass simply because of who he is, but he should never of been a 175lb Champion of the world.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

As a side note, the ending to the Lalonde fight was Brutal.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:19 AM   #14
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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Correct Sir. The Hagler fight is his last real legit win for me. Maybe that's the wrong phrase, but it's the last noteable chapter in his career in my eyes.

He's given a pass simply because of who he is, but he should never of been a 175lb Champion of the world.
He just wasn't the same type of competitor at that point. Leonard up through 1982 was one of the greatest and most legitimate fighters of all-time. He pulled a rabbit out of the hat against Hagler for a last hurrah, then became far more shoddy and cut throat in his methods- Bringing Lalonde down to 168 for his LHW strap and a vacant SMW belt with heavy fine clauses in the contract for any pound over was wrong. He received a gift draw in Hearns II and then had the crowd booing in a charade of a third fight with Duran.

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As a side note, the ending to the Lalonde fight was Brutal.
Savage.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:23 AM   #15
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Default Re: andre ward v chad dawson question

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i used to think the same....but roaches constant and adamant statement that anything over 147 was light-middle did throw my thinking a little on it.
but i did think like you.
Hi mate,

That's a fair point, anything over 147 is light middle. But the point is, they made Marg come in at 150, so it's a bit of a joke for Freddie to have said that.

If they'd have let Marg come in at what he wanted, 154 or under, then fair enough. But they stipulated 150, because they thought if Marg came in at 154, and then rehydrated to whatever, then he'd have been too big for Manny. They were right. But, if that was the case, he shouldn't have been fighting at that weight in the first place.

If Manny wasn't big enough to fight a light middle at 154, then he shouldn't have fought one. End of story!

He had no intention whatsoever of defending the title after he won it. He knew going into the fight, that if he did win, he wasn't going to defend it.

The reason he had no intention of defending it, is because he KNEW he wasn't big enough to defend it against other 154 fighters. That's why it was a complete joke! He was simply too small to compete with the other fighters at that weight.

They knew they couldn't have gotten away with it again, against somebody else. There's no way Arum and Freddie would have let Manny stay and fight in the 154 division.

Manny is simply too small, to fight a legit fight, against a legit 154 pound guy.

The history books will show that he won a 154 title, but it should never have been sanctioned.

I'm a big fan of Manny's, but he should never be classed as an eight division champ.


Regards, Loudon.
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