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View Poll Results: Did Holyfield Beat Lewis in their 2nd Fight? Round by Round Breakdown
Yes - Holyfield won a close decision 45 28.66%
No - the judges got it right 112 71.34%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-24-2007, 03:41 AM   #1
streetsaresafer
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Default Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

I just watched Holyfield/Lewis II again. I scored it 6-5, 1 even for Holyfield tonight (115-114). This is interesting because the 1st 2 times I scored the fight, I scored it 8-4 for Lewis, 116-112. But I think I may be seeing what Burt Sugar, Larry Holmes, Michael Moorer, and several ringside journalists apparently saw - which was a close win for Evander. For the record, Lewis was most certainly jobbed in their 1st fight - I scored the first fight 9-3 for Lewis if I remember correctly.

Holyfield/Lewis II is a tough fight to score. Specifically, rounds 5, 8, and 9 are brutally tough rounds to score that really could be scored either way. Round 1 is close as well. I watched several of these rounds multiple times, I played back some of the exchanges, I even watched a couple of the close rounds with the sound off just to see how that affected things. Very difficult fight to score. Holyfield certainly doesn't get dominated like he did in the first fight.

I lean toward Holyfield ever so slightly in the fight because he seems to be the effective aggressor, he is the one coming forward, landing the more telling blows, and Lewis is far less accurate, particuarly with his jab, in the 2nd fight than he was in the 1st fight. Holyfield's jab seems far more effective, and he lands several good left hooks in the fight. I like Lewis's body attack in this fight, and he has some beautiful uppercuts, particuarly in round 9. But again I scored it for Holyfield by a point this time.

Here is my round by round breakdown from my most recent viewing tonight.

Round 1 - Holyfield
Lewis lands a good jab flush and a decent 1-2 in the first minute. Holyfield lands a decent jab to Lewis chest. Halfway through the round Holyfield whacks Lewis to the side of the head 3 times. Lewis uppercut misses on Holyfield's right glove though the announcers say it hit Holyfield. With 45 seconds to go in the round Holyfield lands a nice 2 punch combo on the inside and then they clinch (ref Halpern makes it tough to see it though). Holyfield again jabs to the chest. Again evident that Holyfield's jab is more effective, at least in this round. Holyfield is the one pushing the fight, coming forward, trying to engage. I know scoring round 1 this way might be controversial since all 3 judges gave it to Lewis, but honestly everytime I have watched this fight I have given round 1 to Holyfield - even the first 2 times where I scored the fight 8-4 Lewis I still gave round 1 to Holyfield. Again the key here is that Holyfield is the effective aggressor in the round.

Round 2 - Lewis
Clear round for Lewis. Goods jabs and a good uppercut in the first minute by Lewis. Holyfield not punching much here. Lewis the aggressor in the round, unlike round 1. Good jab and uppercuts again by Lewis. Good jabs by Holyfield to the body, and a pretty good left hook to Lewis's body. Good 1-2 by Lewis. Decent left hook. Good round for Lewis - clearly his round, Lewis's jab was much more effective here and he landed those uppercuts.

Round 3 - Holyfield
Lewis missing a lot of punches initially. But good jab and uppercuts again 40 seconds into the round by Lewis. Good triple jab by Holyfield halfway through. Decent jabs by Lewis. Slight edge to Lewis so far in the round. Excellent overhand right by Holyfield, biggest flush shot in the round so far. Holyfield whacks Lewis a couple times at the end of the round. I gave the round to Evander due to the quality of his punches. Again a close round though. But Holyfield had the more telling blows and was more the aggressor in round 3.

Round 4 - Lewis
Neither one landing really anything in the first 35 seconds. Holyfield lands a good counter right hand. A couple of jabs by Lewis. Nice jab by Lewis 1 minute 20 seconds in. Some more solid jabs by Lewis. Good right hand by Lewis near the end of the round.

Round 5 - Even
Not a big round for Lewis like Lampley says it is (I like Lampley but I disagree with him about this round). Great left hook by Holyfield, maybe the most flush shot in the fight. Right right hand by Lewis but doesn't land flush despite Lampley's insistence "a big right hand." Holyfield comes back with a left hook. Lewis lands another good right hand. Uppercut, some jabs by Lewis. Decent left hook by Holyfield. Holyfield comes back with a left to the body. Good jab by Holyfield. Holyfield coming forward. Good left to the body by Holyfield. I scored it an even round, Lewis threw more punches but Holyfield was the aggressor in the round going after Lewis and had the best punch in the round early in the round. Very close round though. Even round.

Round 6 - Holyfield
Good, effective jabs by Holyfield. Much more active than Lewis at this point. Lewis gets in an uppercut. But good left to the head by Evander. 1-2combo by Lewis. Right hand by Lewis. Holyfield clearly the aggressor in the round so far. Attempted some big looping overhand rights that missed but still hitting his jabs. Not much activity from Lewis here. More good jab work by Holyfield. Good round for the Real Deal.

Round 7 - Holyfield
I wish more of their rounds was like this one. Best round of their 2 fights. Lewis nice combinations to start out. Uppercut by Lewis. Strong left hook by Holyfield. Holyfield goes to the body. Lewis seems a bit rattled, perhaps hurt some by the left hook earlier. Lewis clinching. Good body shots by Holyfield. Great left hook by Holyfield, snapped Lewis's head back. Good right hand by Lewis. Strong right hand by Lewis. Great round. But Holyfield landed the more telling blows in this round. The short left hook bothered Lewis, and the left hook later on scored big too. Holyfield's round.

Round 8 - Holyfield
Right hand by Lewis. Good jabs by Holyfield. Not much happening though. Good left hook by Holyfield, backing Lewis up, best punch of the round by far. Lewis goes to the body some. Lewis seems a bit lazy here with his hands down. A couple jabs for Lewis. Both get a couple jabs to the body. Good jab by Holyfield. Solid uppercut by Lewis but not flush. Good left hook by Holyfield. Both trying to flurry at the end of the round. Amazingly close round, perhaps the closest of the fight, but I gave it to Holyfield because he landed the best punch of the round, the left hook 1 minute in, and he closed the round nicely with another left hook and then a right hand.

Round 9 - Lewis
Holyfield outjabbing Lewis to start the round. Good loopoing overhand right by Holyfield. Strong beginning by Holyfield in the first minute. Body shots by Lewis. Lots of clinching now. Good triple jab by Holyfield. Holyfield has won the first 2 minutes of the round. Another good left hook to the body by Lewis. Both going at it. Great uppercut by Lewis. Good combinations by Lewis. Lewis scoring some more. I like that they are both going after each other again, ala round 7. Holyfield flurries a bit at the end. I like the aggression both showed in the round. Another close round, I gave it to Lewis due to the uppercut being the best punch of the round. Could see this round being scored either way. Giampa scored it for Holyfield, and the other 2 scored it for Lewis.

Round 10 - Lewis
Some decent jabs by Lewis. Good 1-2 by Lewis. Holyfield trying to establish his jab some. Body punches by Lewis. Holyfield not punching much this round. Missing some. Good counter combo by Lewis. Another good combo punctuated by a good uppercut by Lewis. Two more good body shots by Lewis. Good left hook by Lewis. Lewis looking great this round. Lots of clean shots landed. More body shots by Lewis. Great round for Lewis. Scored a lot shots, and didn't get hit much.

Round 11 - Lewis
Good jabs by Lewis. Holyfield with a couple of rights. Good left by Holyfield. Both jabbing. Left hook by Lewis. More jabs from Lewis. Top notch left hook by Holyfield, best punch of the round so far. Good body shot by Holyfield. Lewis counters with a good body shot. Holyfield lands a very good counter right hand. Good combo by Lewis. Another combo by Lewis.
I gave the round to Lewis because he was busier.

Round 12 - Holyfield
Great combination upstairs by Evander on Lewis. Holyfield lands some body shots on Lewis. Holyfield the agressor in this round so far. Left uppercut by Holyfield. More body attack by Commander Vander. Some jabs by Lewis. Not much activity from Lewis in this round so far. Another combo by Holyfield. Holyfield still going to the body. Solid right hand by Lewis. Clear round for Holyfield though, effective aggressor through out the round.

So Holyfield takes it 115-114. 6 rounds to 5, 1 even.

Thoughts? I must say I am surprised on how my opinion has changed on this fight. I scored it 8-4 for Lewis the first 2 times I scored the fight, but now these last 2 times I seem to think Holyfield takes it ever so slightly. I know most will say Lewis won a close but clear decision, and I have no problem with that as I have scored this fight for him before.

The next time I watch it, I may see Lewis as the winner again.

But right now, Holyfield is my winner for their 2nd fight.
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:00 AM   #2
streetsaresafer
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

I find it hard to believe that the 1st fight could be a draw. I had Lewis taking it clearly, 9 rounds to 3. Lewis dominates the first fight with his jab, and Holyfield just does not punch nearly enough. He had a good round 3, and a couple other rounds but to me the first fight was controlled/dominated by Lewis.

I have mad respect for Mercante though because he scored Ali-Frazier I the same score I did - 8 rounds to 6, 1 even for Joe Frazier.

But the 2nd fight is the real tight one though. Right now I think Holyfield took it. I will be interested to see people's responses because I have heard people say "anyone who says Holyfield won the 2nd fight can't point out the rounds he won." Well I just did that, as objectively and accurately as possible. I think one can make a good argument for both fighters taking a close decision.
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

nice work
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxstuff
That's his way of scoring a fight, but how anyone could say the first fight was a draw is beyond me. It was clear that Lewis dominated throughout the round each time. You could give Evander two-three rounds at most.

You would have to looking exclusively for Evander's best work and ignoring what Lennox was doing.

JLC, you're an ass and a troll.
OK, thats it! You're Banned!! And your vote is deleted!!!
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

And this a Lewis nuthuggars site. Forget the poll!!!
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:43 AM   #6
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsaresafer
I must say I am surprised on how my opinion has changed on this fight. I scored it 8-4 for Lewis the first 2 times I scored the fight, but now these last 2 times I seem to think Holyfield takes it ever so slightly. I know most will say Lewis won a close but clear decision, and I have no problem with that as I have scored this fight for him before..
So what changed between the first 2 times and this one? I score it the same every time I watch it, as I do for most fights.

This flip-flopping just makes it look like you don't really know how to score a fight properly.
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
And this a Lewis nuthuggars site. Forget the poll!!!
Yeah, right.

If thepoll came ou the other way, would you be saying it's a Holyfield nuthuggers site?

Lewis is one of the most disliked champions of recent history. Here and everywhere else.
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

I agree with most of your card, except for rounds 1, 3, 5, and 8.

Round 1 - It was Holyfield's jabs against Lewis's uppercuts and hooks. While Holyfield moved forward more, both guys landed the same number of shots and Lewis was busier. I say Lewis. I was a quiet start for both guys though, which makes it open to doubt in terms of scoring.

Round 3 - The crowd scream their nuts off for Holyfield in the last 30 seconds as he opens up, but most of his shots are hitting nothing but air. Considering the previous 2m30 had been spent with him trundling after Lewis taking jabs and hooks, I'm not going to award Holy this round based on effective aggression, he didn't do enough for four-fifths of the round so I give it to Lewis.

Round 5 - I think Holyfield did enough to win this round. Lampley is wrong when he says "big round for Lewis", while Lewis manages to get in a few decent whacks so does Holyfield and the headbutt/over the ropes incident suggested he had gotten under Lewis's skin. So I say Holyfield here, he opened and closed well. I've seen plenty give this to Lewis, but I disagree.

Round 8 - Couldn't disagree more, Lewis's round. Just when Holyfield had turned up the heat he is unable to capitalise on it. He goes out for a big attack to begin with, but when that fizzles out he again is too often caught on the end of jabs. Also notable is that Lewis begins attacking to the body, which seems to slow Holyfield's offense down. While Lewis was able to maintain his workrate from the previous round, Holyfield's drops off notably and this for me was key to the fight. Lewis.


Thank you very much for putting up your scorecard, and such a detailed one too!
Nice to see someone doing so, 99% of the time it just goes all quiet on the Western Front when people are asked to produced a scorecard showing a Holyfield victory.
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:06 AM   #9
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

I had the 1st fight 10 - 2 for Lewis.

The 2nd fight I had 7-5 for Lewis.
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:29 AM   #10
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLC
Legendary Hall of Fame referee and judge Arthur Mercante who was a scoring referee in Ali vs Frazier (1) "FIGHT OF THE CENTURY" says the correct way to score a prizefight is to break the round down into 3 seperate minutes... fighter A can boss the first 2 minutes of a round and fighter B land several flurries and combinations in the last minute of the round but you have to score that round for fighter A .... using Mercante`s method of scoring Lewis vs Holyfield (1) & (2) ..... !st fight is a DRAW 6rds each .... 2nd fight Holyfield wins 8-4
You scored the first fight a draw?? You are a douche. I know defense is one of the criterias when scoring, but blocking punches with your head doesnt count...
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:04 AM   #11
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeedsLad
You scored the first fight a draw?? You are a douche. I know defense is one of the criterias when scoring, but blocking punches with your head doesnt count...
I'm begining to suspect that JLC is a wind up merchant.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:32 AM   #12
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLC
yes i scored the 1st fight a Draw... so did the 3 experianced judges..... how many fights in Vegas have you been asigned by the boxing commision to score ? ....
Talk about double standards, 3 experienced judges scored the second Holy-Lewis fight in Lewis's favour.. doesnt stop you bitching about it, i bet you cry yourself to sleep every night over it
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:23 AM   #13
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLC
yes i scored the 1st fight a Draw... so did the 3 experianced judges..... how many fights in Vegas have you been asigned by the boxing commision to score ? ....
No, only ONE of the judges scored it a draw.

Stanley Christoudoulou scored for Lewis 116-113
Eugenia Williams scored for Holyfield 115-113 (the only American judge of the 3, and one of the most incompetant judges in the sport)
Larry O'Connor called the fight a 115-115 draw.

The Associated Press scored it 117-111 for Lewis.


In Round 4, Holyfield was outpunched by Lewis 23-9. Judge Williams gave the round to Holyfield.

In Round 5, perhaps the best round for Lewis in the fight, a round where he wobbled Holyfield, the punch count was 43-11. Judge O'Connell gave Holyfield the round.

O'Connell then scored the seventh round a draw, while the other two judges saw Lewis the winner. In Round 7, Holyfield attempted some rope-a-dope strategy, wrestled Lewis to the ground, but barely fought back. It was a dull round, but clearly it was Lewis' dull round. Lewis outpunched Holyfield 33-8.
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

JLC:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 08-24-2007, 01:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Did Holyfield beat Lewis in their 2nd fight? Round by Round Breakdown

I scored the first fight 9-3 for Lewis and the second one 8-4 for Lewis although if I try giving Holyfield the benefit of the doubt I can get to 7-5 for Lewis but even trying to help Holyfield out by giving him close rounds can't get me to a Holyfield tie, nevermind a win. And even though I haven't watched or scored this fight for about a year now, I don't recall it being a difficult fight to score. There were maybe 3 rounds that were close, otherwise I thought one or the other fighter won a particular round fairly convincingly.
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